General Questions

[Sir_L_Jenkins]

When the rules say mass, as in "the motor must move a mass for ten seconds," what do they mean? A mass weight or just anything that has mass?

Yeah, I think you can pretty much drag anything as long as it has mass. I would imagine it doesn't have to be a standardized weight or anything. I wonder if you could get away with having a fan blowing air, claiming that you're dragging the air, which does have mass after all =P. Although I wouldn't try it as it would be pushing the limit just a weee bit too much, but I would love to see that. It's a shame you can't do parallel tasks, or else you could do that and the fan step all at once!

so that's what parrallel tasks means, thought it was two tasks at once like side by side... *hits himself*

Err, well the parallel tasks do mean two steps side by side. Like you have a mousetrap that pulls out block A while also pulling out pin B of something else, which then starts two separate tasks at the same time. I guess what I was saying was combining the two tasks together, so it would technically be a parallel task, doing two different steps at once, but only using one motor to do those two steps.

[aubrey048]

How can you possibly have a "tiebreaker" for mission possible? I'm curious, in the event my team is tied with someone else.

[rockhound]

How can you possibly have a "tiebreaker" for mission possible? I'm curious, in the event my team is tied with someone else.

Most likely times are not exactly the same or if they are the same then one team had a flag raised higher.

[aubrey048]

I did actually read about a tiebreaker somewhere. Not sure if it was online or not. Anyway, that would be pretty absurd to get the EXACT same time as someone else . . .

[Sir_L_Jenkins]

I did actually read about a tiebreaker somewhere. Not sure if it was online or not. Anyway, that would be pretty absurd to get the EXACT same time as someone else . . .

well, the final tiebreaker is the height of the flagpole, and since the judges are supposed to truncate the times I believe to the closest second, if you have max points, that means you automatically get down to the flagpole tiebreaker, which will most likely happen at state, and definitely nationals.

[rockhound]

well, the final tiebreaker is the height of the flagpole, and since the judges are supposed to truncate the times I believe to the closest second, if you have max points, that means you automatically get down to the flagpole tiebreaker, which will most likely happen at state, and definitely nationals.

Unfortunately time is not that way for the tiebreaker. http://soinc.org/node/473

•12/22/2009 - 09:01 Points and penalties seem to be awarded based on “full” seconds of operation. Is that also true for the second tie breaker?
No. Timing points and penalties are awarded based upon full seconds (not rounded seconds). The second tie breaker uses partial seconds.

So yay, your device gets to be rate based on the judges reaction time on a stopwatch to fractions of a second.

[Sir_L_Jenkins]

well, the final tiebreaker is the height of the flagpole, and since the judges are supposed to truncate the times I believe to the closest second, if you have max points, that means you automatically get down to the flagpole tiebreaker, which will most likely happen at state, and definitely nationals.

Unfortunately time is not that way for the tiebreaker. http://soinc.org/node/473

Oh wow, that is quite unfortunate, but that's really stupid as the exact instant where your flagpole comes up is totally subjective. I was talking to uncle fester at build it day a while back for that, and he said the final times were truncated as well for that tiebreaker, but perhaps things changed then. If that was true, then the final tiebreaker would be almost impossible to happen depending on how many sig figs, no matter how inaccurate, the judges decide to use.

[Flavorflav]

well, the final tiebreaker is the height of the flagpole, and since the judges are supposed to truncate the times I believe to the closest second, if you have max points, that means you automatically get down to the flagpole tiebreaker, which will most likely happen at state, and definitely nationals.

Unfortunately time is not that way for the tiebreaker. http://soinc.org/node/473

Oh wow, that is quite unfortunate, but that's really stupid as the exact instant where your flagpole comes up is totally subjective. I was talking to uncle fester at build it day a while back for that, and he said the final times were truncated as well for that tiebreaker, but perhaps things changed then. If that was true, then the final tiebreaker would be almost impossible to happen depending on how many sig figs, no matter how inaccurate, the judges decide to use.

That's exactly right. The clarification therefore effectively nullifies a perfectly good tiebreaker, height, in favor of a highly questionable one. I can't think of any reason for it. It's pretty hard to imagine two devices with exactly the same height.

[Sir_L_Jenkins]

Aye, my team and I were having fun with coming up with really creative flagpoles for that tiebreaker, but if the time comes before that, then the flagpole height really doesn't matter at all until you reach a competition with a very large group of max scores. It would make a lot more sense to reverse the two, have flagpole height as a primary, or secondary tiebreaker, then exact time after that if needed, or just use truncated/rounded times. It would take a lot more skill to vary the height of your flagpole, but the exact time is more or less subjective to the judge, and I would assume most Missions can't control their timing of the device down to a tenth, or hundredth of a second. This could be really annoying in nationals where a lot of teams I would assume can obtain max points, thus it would all go down to the judge's decision/competency on the timing. This is a rube goldberg, not it's about time.

Oh well, I guess rules like these aren't exactly new to SO, haha. Complaining on the forums won't exactly make my device more reliable =P

[sciencegeek100]

Is MP a 3 person event?

Also, anyone who has done the event before, how did you create more surface area on your device? Just add boards vertical or horizontal?

since i have been in scioly i thought it was 2, although i did remember some teams having 3 go up for medals...