Helicopter refuses to fly

[nulluser]

Hello,
We are first-time SciOly students in Helicopter. We have chosen to create a design from scratch, but it does not fly (at all). We have tried reassembly, reorientation of the rubber and tried multiple tests. We are considering trying an advanced kit, such as the Tornado or Hurricane. The bands are lubed with ArmorAll, and the hook point (empty hook with hot glue) is at the center of gravity.
1. What could cause this?
2. Will building with a kit harm our chances at regionals/nationals?
Thank you. Attached are multiple pictures and videos of the offending helicopter.

[PrancingPlane]

I don't think images can be attached to a forum post, but I'm not entirely sure.

[bjt4888]

I don't think images can be attached to a forum post, but I'm not entirely sure.

Save images to a Google folder (or similar) and share the link here.

Brian T

[nulluser]

Sorry, images are on my partner's computer. I'll check with him to obtain images.

[bjt4888]

Sorry, images are on my partner's computer. I'll check with him to obtain images.

In addition to pictures and/or video, please supply the following

1. Rotor diameters
2. Fuselage length and measurement from top rotor to bottom rotor
3. Fuselage balance point
4. Rotor blades blade width (chord measurement) and pitch angles at 50% blade span and at blade tips for all blades. Include chord measurement at various radii if using a tapered blade platform
5. If an x-rotor, the measurement of distance between spars at rotor center for each rotor
6. Weight of the helicopter
7. Construction details: spar material, motor stick wood weight, density and dimensions
8. All rubber motor and winding details: length, weight of motor and weight of o-rings, max turns, backoff turns, max torque, launch torque, turns remaining

All this info is necessary for analysis of the issues

Brian T

[nulluser]

While reading through this list, I am beginning to realize that we messed up in multiple places.
1. Rotors were made with prayer and duct tape
2. We used rubber bands, not o-rings
3. We used hot glue, which probably led to increased weight
4. Rotors were inconsistent in design.
After reading through the NFFS materials, which we should have done earlier, we're probably leaning towards a kit as we have limited access to materials and experience. We are considering getting a Twister/Neapolitan just to practice building/trimming/making something that has a longer flight time than a rock and then a Tornado/Freedom Flight kit for Regionals. Much thanks.

[coachchuckaahs]

The Neapolitan kit (Laser Cut Planes) should be a very straightforward build. John is an educator, and targets his kits toward first-time participants. His simplicity is legendary, and you should get a flyable heli on the first try.

Josh (J&H) and Dave (FFM) put a lot of development work into their kits, and they are highly successful, though they take a higher level of build skill. All are certainly buildable if you carefully follow instructions, and these suppliers will give you a heli that is capable at all levels of competition. FFM is probably the more frequent kit, and features an X-rotor design. Dave did a lot of testing prior to release of the kit, and has had very successful kits in years past. We got 2:22 on our first flight with his kit. Josh (J&H) has released several kits with increasing complexity, and reflecting that he continually has developed his designs through the season. Be sure to read Josh's notes when selecting which to build, as he highly recommends a sequence due to increasing difficulty.

I think your concern about kits being a limitation is off track. Generally any of these kits will get you in the air, and the FFM and J&H kits will get you a competitive device if built accurately. If you have not built a successful heli, I highly recommend a kit. You could refine from there, but only after you are exceeding about 2:30 flight times and have enough experience to understand what features may be changed for improvement. In 2017, most if not all (but one) helis at Nationals were FFM kits. I do not think J&H had a kit that year.

Coach Chuck

[nulluser]

1. Wow, these forums are great!
2. Is there any real difference competition-wise between the Tornado and FF kits?

Thanks once again.

[coachchuckaahs]

I do not think there is enough data to compare well-built versions of these kits in a competitive environment. There are a lot of kits out there, but comparisons in a controlled environment (same builder, same flight conditions, same optimization) are non-existent.

The helis are dramatically different in design.

Josh shows 90-100 seconds for the Tornado in his web site, though that may be improved with some of the later mods. The FFM kit has been reported over 2 minutes in living room. Josh does have a newer kit, Hurricane, which is supposed to be an improvement, but read the cautions on his web site, it is not intended as a first build.

All of these kits, or your own design, will be substantially sensitive to accurate building.

Coach Chuck

[nulluser]

Over 2 minutes is 100% astounding. Do you think that building the Neapolitan will serve as good practice for the FF build? We will try to be as accurate as possible. We know about the Hurricane, and, if we get past Regionals, will likely be using it.

Thanks once more for your insight.