Releasing graded tests at Regionals and States

[knightmoves]

But wouldn't the student or the coach know that there's still room for improvement when they're placed near the bottom?

They knew they had to do better, but didn't understand how much better. Without the heads-up from the other coach, they'd have been shaving single grams off a 40g bridge.

[bearasauras]

Ah that makes sense. So with the written events, would it be helpful to get the raw score and the range of scores back?

[windu34]

Who has ever come out of a test (any kind of test) thinking they've done well, and then been surprised when they've got their grade back?

So why did you do badly? Do you not know as much as you think? Did you misjudge the level of rigor required in the answers? Or was the ES just "unusual"?

As knottingpurple says, if you know you bombed a test, you can write down the things you couldn't do and study them. But if you don't know, you don't know how to improve.

My friend did bridge building last time it was an event. His team was not historically strong at building events, but he built a bridge that he was proud of, that held the full weight, and took it to an invitational. He placed near the bottom. So he built another bridge which was a bit lighter, and again placed near the bottom. Eventually, a coach from another team spoke to his coach, and pointed out that they were in completely the wrong ballpark, and that improving a bridge from 70g to 40g wasn't going to help his score. The second year, he placed at regionals. If nobody had told him what he was doing wrong, he'd have spent the whole second year also building heavy things and scoring badly.

These are some good points. Additionally, there are certainly competitions (MIT comes to mind) where you can think you did badly and still win an event. For example, Rock and Minerals last year had the highest score at a 30-40% (forgive me I forget the exact number) and a student accustomed to taking tests at school where everyone usually has enough time to finish and at least a few people get A's could be horrified by their raw score. However, if they had access to full raw scores of all the teams, they could see how they actually performed comparatively. Also teams may not have had time to look at all the questions and therefore would not be able to remember what the questions were and therefore not be able to improve unless they got a copy of the test. I know this is an extreme example, but there is no way to say that this doesn't occur at regionals/states across the nation every year. In fact, it probably does happen to many of the teams just starting out. Not releasing the tests could be another barrier to success for many new/inexperienced teams.

[0ddrenaline]

I'll share what Region 12 of Michigan does, since I think it might resolve some problems.

At a set time after regionals (before state), up to three coaches are allowed to view each team's test. They may not take the tests with them after viewing; the tests are returned to the tournament organizers. Coaches are allowed to take notes, but not take pictures. Event supervisors can opt out of their tests being shared. For building events, all teams' scores are available for viewing. The coaches have a couple hours maximum, so they don't have enough time to write every detail of the test. It's only enough time to identify which topics each person needs to improve on.

I like this method, but it's not perfect. It introduces some other possible problems. For example, I remember seeing both the test score and the build scores for every Thermodynamics team. Other building events provided similar information. I personally think that is too much information to share with us.

[bearasauras]

That's great! That's what we used to do in one of my Regionals, but as the number of teams increased, it has become more challenging to do. We have 40 B and 40 C teams on average per tournament, how do you make sure you have the time and personnel to support this effort?

[Raleway]

That's great! That's what we used to do in one of my Regionals, but as the number of teams increased, it has become more challenging to do. We have 40 B and 40 C teams on average per tournament, how do you make sure you have the time and personnel to support this effort?

You could probably do a rotation over a couple of days. Given that your region is quite... L A R G E shall we say, it's probably best to do this on a weekend and just split them over 3 days. I guess this is just also another initiative that has its burden set on the organizers, unfortunately But I'm sure every region would really appreciate it!

[bearasauras]

Ah, so you pick a weekend have coaches go to your house any time between 8am and 5pm on the weekend to review the test. Hmmm, I think my Regional Directors may revolt.

[0ddrenaline]

That's great! That's what we used to do in one of my Regionals, but as the number of teams increased, it has become more challenging to do. We have 40 B and 40 C teams on average per tournament, how do you make sure you have the time and personnel to support this effort?

Time isn't an issue, because all of the teams come at one time. The coaches that show up to view the tests are mostly those that qualified for state (20 between B and C). Not even all of them come. Anyway, tests are all laid out and the coaches can pick them up as they please. So personnel isn't a problem.

[bearasauras]

This is really helpful. I'll share this with our Regional Directors at our next meeting and find out why they stopped doing this. Thanks!

[Raleway]

Ah, so you pick a weekend have coaches go to your house any time between 8am and 5pm on the weekend to review the test. Hmmm, I think my Regional Directors may revolt.

Yeah! No but really, only those teams motivated to do better will go. Also, you could look at going to a meeting space at the local library and going during the weekday I feel seems worse... then again I am not a director