Season 2012 - Site suggestions

[scifipi]

Updated wikis!! ESPECIALLY Mission Possible. The tasks can be tricky, and the wiki for it is really lacking. Could someone put examples and tips? We need them xD Thanks!

[zyzzyva980]

I wish I could snap my fingers and the wiki would be magically updated, but sadly, it doesn't work that way. We need the members of this site to help out too- whatever knowledge you may have, it's always going to help. Until some brave soul steps up to improve that page (it's not that hard, guys), it's going to stay exactly as it is. Maybe no one who regularly edits the wiki has done the event (I haven't or I would work on improving it), but that's where we need people like you, with even a little experience, to step up.

tl;dr: Everyone go edit a page or ten.

If you're not sure what to work on, take a look at the Needs Work page

[Skink]

The problem is--as you know--it is not in anybody's interest to edit those pages or make them comprehensive resources without "giving away" anything.

A few of the Div B-only pages are scant and poorly written (Mission among them). I will gladly go in there and clean up the writing and formatting, but I'm not exactly in favor of adding content or filling in holes.
I will throw this out there, though: if anyone else out there seriously wants to try to make the Div. B event pages central resource hubs, I'm willing to work on that collaboratively.

[hexagonaria]

The problem is--as you know--it is not in anybody's interest to edit those pages or make them comprehensive resources without "giving away" anything.

A few of the Div B-only pages are scant and poorly written (Mission among them). I will gladly go in there and clean up the writing and formatting, but I'm not exactly in favor of adding content or filling in holes.
I will throw this out there, though: if anyone else out there seriously wants to try to make the Div. B event pages central resource hubs, I'm willing to work on that collaboratively.

I plan on putting in all 6 years worth of collective information on the wiki once I've graduated, our the event rotates out.

[tuftedtitmouse12]

The problem is--as you know--it is not in anybody's interest to edit those pages or make them comprehensive resources without "giving away" anything.

A few of the Div B-only pages are scant and poorly written (Mission among them). I will gladly go in there and clean up the writing and formatting, but I'm not exactly in favor of adding content or filling in holes.
I will throw this out there, though: if anyone else out there seriously wants to try to make the Div. B event pages central resource hubs, I'm willing to work on that collaboratively.

I plan on putting in all 6 years worth of collective information on the wiki once I've graduated, our the event rotates out.

That won't help now.

[ketzellevine]

There might already be this, but a copy of the rules accessible from the wiki would streamline everything quite nicely. I always wondered why the national site doesn't have the rules posted...

[zyzzyva980]

Unfortunately, the rules are copyrighted by nationals. You'll have to buy the rules from SOinc if you want them, since you won't be able to find them (legally) posted online.

[Julian]

The problem is--as you know--it is not in anybody's interest to edit those pages or make them comprehensive resources without "giving away" anything.

I've been thinking a lot about this too. In the past, when I picked up a new event, I would read the article here about the event. Some of them are quite helpful in getting started, but others, as you've noted, are rather lacking.

Going forward, I think it would help to understand the goal of the event articles. Are they there to outline the framework of an event, which tends to help newcomers, or are they there to be a comprehensive, end-all, be-all, resource for veterans and beginners alike?

I'd like to use the Thermodynamics page as an example. Unlike some of the other event pages, the Thermo page is packed with information. Looks like a good, comprehensive page right? No work needed?

I would argue that the Thermo page is in need of as much work as the MP(B) page. Reading through it, I highly doubt that a beginner would take the time to read through and understand all that dense material, and as a veteran, I have better resources and more effective ways to study for the written portion. The wiki isn't doing much to help either camp. It's also worth noting that while the wiki deals almost exclusively with the written portion, the discussion on the Thermo page on the forums tends to be about the device itself. There's a lot of good information there about building devices that could be added to the wiki page. As it is, the page reserves a measly two sentences for something that is worth half of the final score of the event.

I think that the wikis are most effective at helping beginners get a good grasp on a new event. This means they should be comprehensive about the nature of the event, but concise when possible. The wiki page has a lot of information about thermodynamics, which one which can be explained far better on other online resources like Wikipedia, or best of all, by reading an actual textbook. The wiki pages cannot hope to compete with sources like that and should try to be a "textbook-lite" version of the event. Instead, it should provide an overview of the common topics one should expect to see in the exam (since the rulebook is rather vague), and give a better explanation of what the device should do, how one should go about designing and building one, and some general tips and advice.

As for the concern that Skink articulated, I once again point out, that the job of the wikis shouldn't be to be a comprehensive resource. There is no way to compete with textbooks and there is no reason to clog the page up with copied text from various online sources. The wiki pages should be comprehensive in the sense that someone reading through the whole thing will come out with a very clear understanding of what the event is, some of the topics it deals with, how to be successful in the event, and most importantly what he or she should do next.

Sorry for the long post. Talk is cheap, but I would like to put my money where my mouth is. I will hopefully have some time at the end of the month, and I would like to edit the thermodynamics page to better reflect some of the things above. However, in this case, it's not just about adding new content, but also removing, what I believe, to be some unnecessary information that has already been posted. What do you guys think? Is this the right direction to be going in?

[zyzzyva980]

Hmm. I understand what you're saying, but who's to say that a wiki can't be both? In a perfect world, the wiki would be a good resource for helping beginners learn their way around their events, as well as to help veterans expand their knowledge of the event. Unfortunately, the middle and high school-age students who write the pages aren't to the level of textbook writers. We have neither the knowledge or the resources (or, occasionally, the grammar skills) of the people who write textbooks. But there is one thing that the people who write the wiki pages have, and that's experience. The difference between the wiki and a textbook is their ultimate goal: The wiki is there specifically for the purpose of the event. The textbook is there as a general aid for students learning about the topic.

I picked up an astronomy textbook the other day, and only about 20% of it dealt with what I would expect to see on a test this year. I could read through the entire textbook, but that would involve reading a lot of excess information and wasting a lot of time. If I read only the parts that looked like they pertained to the event, I might miss some crucial information.

On the other hand, the wiki deals 100% with the event. Our hope is that the wiki contains most of the information needed to deal with the event, but nothing that doesn't, so you don't waste time. Of course, it might be impossible for the wiki to have all of the information needed to deal with the event, especially one as large as Astronomy. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily. The student should have to do some of the work too. A wiki page should have a solid list of external links as jumping off points for studying as well.

As for removing information, that's frowned upon with the wiki. A cluttered page can be fixed with some reorganization and no removal of information. Now, if the information truly doesn't deal with the event, then it shouldn't be there. But having a wide breadth of information on the wiki is critical to its success.

Julian, you do bring up a good point. The wiki will never be perfect, but it should be clear and concise. Reorganization, in my opinion, (and I know this opinion is shared by many others) is a better path to follow than removal of information. Of course, there may be another way that works even better. That's what this thread is for. Suggestions are more than welcome on this matter and any matter dealing with the wiki.

[Skink]

I don't have time to get deeply into this discussion right now, but distilling the wiki pages down to what would be helpful to a newcomer would ultimately result in the following:

a copy of the rules accessible from the wiki would streamline
everything quite nicely

...though I generally agree about the Thermo page, which also needs to be separated from Keep the Heat sometime. I won't be doing any of this until after the season, though.