Scrambler C

[fruitloopwizard]

Sorry, kinda new here, but does anyone know if Ramp Scramblers are allowed this year?

[iwonder]

Welcome! Try searching for answers before posting (there's a search box in the top right), it'll typically get you the answer faster and the forums don't become giant repetitions

In your case, we just discussed that on page 5 of the this topic, check there.

[fruitloopwizard]

Aha! Thanks so much, will do.

[JimY]

So has it been clarified by the Science Olympiad people that ramps are legal. Because I can see how a proctor would not allow them. Since it states it is powered by a "falling mass" and when you think of a ramp you don't think of fall object.

Though I can't give you a official clarification, I can give you a strong argument to why a ramp would be legal. The car can be considered the falling mass. There is no rule saying your falling mass can't be your car. Though the weight of your car would have to be less than 2kg, since the entire vehicle is considered part of the falling mass. Ramps in the past have been legal for scrambler and I see no reason why to prohibit ramps this year. Understand that this is merely my opinion and in my opinion a good argument.

I think it is rather risky to have the vehicle on a ramp. The key reason is that the pointed tip of the egg the egg must be placed even with the start line while nothing can be beyond the start line when released, all per rule 4f. Combine this with rule 2e and think side view of the vehicle and egg. One of the following has to be true: 1. If the pointed tip is at the start line, then some point above the tip is over the start line (maybe by only a couple mm), or 2. Some point above the tip of the egg is at the start line and therefore the tip is actually short of the start line (again, by maybe a couple mm). If I were running the event, I'd put any team that does not have the long dimension of the egg parallel to the ground and pointed at the target while at the starting line in tier 2 per rule 4f.

[Flavorflav]

I don't see anything requiring the egg to be parallel to the ground after launch, though, so it should be possible to incline the egg so that it tips up slightly during the run. You might run into trouble about the definition of the front and rear 2 cm, though.

[thsom]

So has it been clarified by the Science Olympiad people that ramps are legal. Because I can see how a proctor would not allow them. Since it states it is powered by a "falling mass" and when you think of a ramp you don't think of fall object.

Though I can't give you a official clarification, I can give you a strong argument to why a ramp would be legal. The car can be considered the falling mass. There is no rule saying your falling mass can't be your car. Though the weight of your car would have to be less than 2kg, since the entire vehicle is considered part of the falling mass. Ramps in the past have been legal for scrambler and I see no reason why to prohibit ramps this year. Understand that this is merely my opinion and in my opinion a good argument.

I think it is rather risky to have the vehicle on a ramp. The key reason is that the pointed tip of the egg the egg must be placed even with the start line while nothing can be beyond the start line when released, all per rule 4f. Combine this with rule 2e and think side view of the vehicle and egg. One of the following has to be true: 1. If the pointed tip is at the start line, then some point above the tip is over the start line (maybe by only a couple mm), or 2. Some point above the tip of the egg is at the start line and therefore the tip is actually short of the start line (again, by maybe a couple mm). If I were running the event, I'd put any team that does not have the long dimension of the egg parallel to the ground and pointed at the target while at the starting line in tier 2 per rule 4f.

4f requires that nothing be past the line and the egg may not be before the line either. A ramp does not require anything to be past the line and the positioning of an egg on the line is quite possible. The rules also do not require for the egg to be parallel to the line at starting.

[iwonder]

So has it been clarified by the Science Olympiad people that ramps are legal. Because I can see how a proctor would not allow them. Since it states it is powered by a "falling mass" and when you think of a ramp you don't think of fall object.

Though I can't give you a official clarification, I can give you a strong argument to why a ramp would be legal. The car can be considered the falling mass. There is no rule saying your falling mass can't be your car. Though the weight of your car would have to be less than 2kg, since the entire vehicle is considered part of the falling mass. Ramps in the past have been legal for scrambler and I see no reason why to prohibit ramps this year. Understand that this is merely my opinion and in my opinion a good argument.

I think it is rather risky to have the vehicle on a ramp. The key reason is that the pointed tip of the egg the egg must be placed even with the start line while nothing can be beyond the start line when released, all per rule 4f. Combine this with rule 2e and think side view of the vehicle and egg. One of the following has to be true: 1. If the pointed tip is at the start line, then some point above the tip is over the start line (maybe by only a couple mm), or 2. Some point above the tip of the egg is at the start line and therefore the tip is actually short of the start line (again, by maybe a couple mm). If I were running the event, I'd put any team that does not have the long dimension of the egg parallel to the ground and pointed at the target while at the starting line in tier 2 per rule 4f.

I personally think that that interpretation of the rule is very, very strict, to the point of just being unusable. I see the point you're trying to make, but the difference isn't even 4 mm in the ramps I've seen. I think the point of that rule is to stop competitors from shielding the egg, and the restate that the pointed end of the egg is placed forward. Regardless, there are ways around this issue if it did come to a head (I.e an articulated front end that's always level)

[thsom]

How will we know if we are tiered 1, 2, or etc. in case, on the off chance, we need to fight for the validity of our design and reference the rules.

[iwonder]

How will we know if we are tiered 1, 2, or etc. in case, on the off chance, we need to fight for the validity of our design and reference the rules.

The event supervisor should tell you (even though I've had one that didn't exactly mention it... but in that case there was some question to it and we had discussed it beforehand).

Also of note, if you're going to file an appeal, you need to leave all devices with the event supervisor, regardless of weather or not the event was an impound event (per general rule 10 and many event rules).

And please try to be understanding, it's entirely expected for people to appeal for things, and I've done it before as a competitor, but we've all been up since 5, and many times the ES is pulled in a thousand different directions and can be very stressed, so please be polite about it, it may have just been a mental slip that caused issues.

[jacobxc]

How will we know if we are tiered 1, 2, or etc. in case, on the off chance, we need to fight for the validity of our design and reference the rules.

As far as I know almost all infractions will put you into tier 2, but if you build your device completely off from the specification in the rules, hence our ongoing discussion on whether a ramp is legal, it could put you in tier 3. If you read the rules it has lots of the tier 2 infractions listed throughout them.