Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

[chalker7]

Everyone has opinions and ideas about materials and I am rather opinionated until I find something better. With any non foam plastic allowed, there is not much use for ceramics or aluminum foil. They both absorb heat more than most plastics. If they absorb heat, they will transmit it. Vacuum is the ultimate, but dual wall, air center,hot cups work very well. Trapped air is why many insulators work so well.

You're exactly right, trapped air is what makes most insulators work. However, you're very misguided about ceramics. The best solid insulator on earth (aerogel) is technically a ceramic and there are a number of low-density ceramics that outperform many, if not all, plastics. Many plastics have relatively high densities or extremely low porosities while many ceramics are exactly the opposite (while maintaining mechanical performance under high temperature i.e. not melting/softening.) There is a reason most coffee mugs are made of ceramics and not plastic.

[RAntonello]

Everyone has opinions and ideas about materials and I am rather opinionated until I find something better. With any non foam plastic allowed, there is not much use for ceramics or aluminum foil. They both absorb heat more than most plastics. If they absorb heat, they will transmit it. Vacuum is the ultimate, but dual wall, air center,hot cups work very well. Trapped air is why many insulators work so well.

You're exactly right, trapped air is what makes most insulators work. However, you're very misguided about ceramics. The best solid insulator on earth (aerogel) is technically a ceramic and there are a number of low-density ceramics that outperform many, if not all, plastics. Many plastics have relatively high densities or extremely low porosities while many ceramics are exactly the opposite (while maintaining mechanical performance under high temperature i.e. not melting/softening.) There is a reason most coffee mugs are made of ceramics and not plastic.

Would that mean that aerogel is allowable because its a ceramic and that's not a prohibited material?
[I'm not asking for a rules clarification, just wondering what everyone thinks]

[harryk]

Aeorgel is prohibited because it is a commercial insulator

[iwonder]

Would that mean that aerogel is allowable because its a ceramic and that's not a prohibited material?
[I'm not asking for a rules clarification, just wondering what everyone thinks]

Actually, aerogel is not technically always sold as a commercial insulator(though it often is), the stuff I have was just sold as a curiosity(it's also the world's lightest solid, apparently), but aerogel isn't a ceramic in my understanding, it's a nano-foam. It's made from a synthesized gel that's submerged in a very-high pressure atmosphere of liquid CO2, the CO2 penetrates into the gel, and once the pressure is released all the CO2 boils off and the gel's structure is replaced with air, yielding a solid with a lot of air nano-sized air pockets, perfect for insulating anything. Just out of curiosity, what classifies it as a ceramic(noting that in the making of aerogel it's never heated)?

For more info: http://www.aerogel.org/?cat=41

[chalker]

aerogel isn't a ceramic in my understanding, it's a nano-foam. I

Based upon the respective wikipedia pages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel), it seems like aerogels ARE made via a heating process.

A minor item that might be of interest: my brother, who I'm sure will provide a detailed explanation as to why aerogel is a ceramic, has advanced degrees in materials science and art history.. so I generally suspect he knows what he's talking about on this issue;)

[chalker7]

Would that mean that aerogel is allowable because its a ceramic and that's not a prohibited material?
[I'm not asking for a rules clarification, just wondering what everyone thinks]

Actually, aerogel is not technically always sold as a commercial insulator(though it often is), the stuff I have was just sold as a curiosity(it's also the world's lightest solid, apparently), but aerogel isn't a ceramic in my understanding, it's a nano-foam. It's made from a synthesized gel that's submerged in a very-high pressure atmosphere of liquid CO2, the CO2 penetrates into the gel, and once the pressure is released all the CO2 boils off and the gel's structure is replaced with air, yielding a solid with a lot of air nano-sized air pockets, perfect for insulating anything. Just out of curiosity, what classifies it as a ceramic(noting that in the making of aerogel it's never heated)?

For more info: http://www.aerogel.org/?cat=41

So that's a fair assumption about the definition of a ceramics, based upon the wikipedia definition. However, foams are not mutually exclusive from other material categories. There are solid plastic, metal and ceramic foams, all made with the introduction of some type of gas into a liquid. That doesn't mean polystyrene packaging isn't a plastic, just that it's a plastic based foam.

A similar concept exists with "glass" in that the modern definition of "glass" is simply a solid without a crystal structure, so there are both ceramic and non-metallic glasses.

Within Materials Science (at least at the beginning, the further along you get the more these lines are blurred) you focus on the chemical composition of a material to define its class, largely ignoring the preparation methods. So, chemically speaking, ceramics are simply nonmetallic and inorganic solids. Since silica (the most popular base material in aerogel) is nonmetallic and inorganic, it's a ceramic.

Also, and this isn't an official statement, but aerogel is A) a foam and b) most often sold as a commercial insulator (it doesn't matter if you buy just a small "sample," it's primary utility is advanced insulation.)

[Itsanthonguise]

Can anyone explain to me how boyles law and charles law works?

[chalker]

Can anyone explain to me how boyles law and charles law works?

Wikipedia has really good explanations and animations for them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyles_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles%27s_law

[flyingwatermelon]

Does anyone think agar is considered a commercial insulator?

I feel as long as one doesn't put bubbles into agar and allow the agar fit the definition of foam it could be used as an insulator. Does anyone have any thoughts about using agar?

Finally, would using distilled water or oil as a component of the insulation be a good idea or are liquids not a good idea?

[chalker]

Does anyone think agar is considered a commercial insulator?

I feel as long as one doesn't put bubbles into agar and allow the agar fit the definition of foam it could be used as an insulator. Does anyone have any thoughts about using agar?

Finally, would using distilled water or oil as a component of the insulation be a good idea or are liquids not a good idea?

Unofficially of course, no I don't think it's a commercial insulator. However I don't know why you'd want to use it or even a liquid. If you are looking for ideas, check out this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_%2 ... r_material