Robot Arm C

[windu34]

As usual, not official answer, ask on national site if you really need one.

Relating to device score, the rules say:
7.e. 6 points for each die sitting flat completely within the Competition Area that has an even number facing upwards at the end of the Competition Time.

I don't see any requirement to be in the egg carton or not. Though I'd find it harder as an ES to determine they were sitting flat if they were in the egg carton than if they were out.

Tie breaker one, yep all with the six up.
Hmm, tie breaker two, max items fully supported by the egg carton. I'll just point out that para 5.d. starts: "Scoreable items will be..." and then goes on to describe where the ping pong balls, pencils and legos are placed, but does not mention the dice. Para 5.e describes the dice placement, but never calls them items.

This may be hairsplitting, but seems to me a literal reading of the rules would say the dice do NOT count towards the second tie breaker. Reminder, that's an UNOFFICIAL opinion, but I think a correct reading of the rules.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

Ok Thanks, that's what I was thinking, just wanted another opinion to confirm.

[peartree423]

So I am wondering what it means by the second tie breaker "Greatest number of times fully supported by goal cartons" Is this tie breaker for people who did not get the maximum score or am I interpreting it differently?

If I understand your question correctly, yes. For the full scores, all dice will be in optimal positions (six facing up) and all items will be in cartons so only the third tiebreaker applies for full scores since time isn't calculated in scores.

This is essential ture, except for the fact that the dice don't need to be 6 up to obtain a perfect score. But the idea is correct. For those who get perfect scores and get the dice 6 up, yes, the second tiebreaker doesn't have any effect

[bernard]

So I am wondering what it means by the second tie breaker "Greatest number of times fully supported by goal cartons" Is this tie breaker for people who did not get the maximum score or am I interpreting it differently?

If I understand your question correctly, yes. For the full scores, all dice will be in optimal positions (six facing up) and all items will be in cartons so only the third tiebreaker applies for full scores since time isn't calculated in scores.

This is essential ture, except for the fact that the dice don't need to be 6 up to obtain a perfect score. But the idea is correct. For those who get perfect scores and get the dice 6 up, yes, the second tiebreaker doesn't have any effect

Please see Jeff's response, which seems like a correct interpretation, though unofficial. In summary, the dice aren't defined as items so probably wouldn't be counted for the second tiebreaker.

When I made my comment, I incorrectly remembered the one point per item in North zone as one point per item supported by a carton, so that's where my incorrect reasoning comes from.

[windu34]

What kind of mechanisms for turning over the dice are you guys picturing? I have been attempting to use a servo in my claw to flip the die 180 degrees, but it is not working quite as well as I pictured

[jander14indoor]

You might want to consider a dedicated special 'arm' to flip the dice.
Move legos first.
Put 'fence' around dice, slide thin metal sheet under and overr dice trapping between. Lift and flip as a set. Now all 6's up. Remove plates so dice exposed. Push forward into North zone. You might not want to pull original top plate out as to help trap the dice it might be good to line it with some thing high friction, like a rubber sheet, that would make it hard to push the dice off without flipping again.

Overall, my plan of attack might be something like:
- trap ping pong balls and pencil close to edge so they don't go out of bounds. ALL the ping pong balls are going to want to start rolling once your robot moves and they are likely to roll out of bounds as there is no wall like robocross to stop things. And that one pencil will roll out easier than you think.
- Push legos forward as part of that dice strategy.
- Run the dice strategy independantly (could either automate it, or have two people controlling. One focused on items, one on the dice.
- While the dice strategy executes, start moving the other stuff. Once trapped I'm not sure that I see a reason to start with any one class first. Maybe the ping pong balls last so you don't knock them out of the special holes while moving the pencils and legos to the egg cartons.

Hmmm, just had a thought. Could you pick up the ping pong balls with a vacuum end effector... Nothing in the rules against a small vacuum fan and hose. Seems like it would be FAR less fussy than a gripper.

Any way, some thoughts.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[windu34]

You might want to consider a dedicated special 'arm' to flip the dice.
Move legos first.
Put 'fence' around dice, slide thin metal sheet under and overr dice trapping between. Lift and flip as a set. Now all 6's up. Remove plates so dice exposed. Push forward into North zone. You might not want to pull original top plate out as to help trap the dice it might be good to line it with some thing high friction, like a rubber sheet, that would make it hard to push the dice off without flipping again.

Overall, my plan of attack might be something like:
- trap ping pong balls and pencil close to edge so they don't go out of bounds. ALL the ping pong balls are going to want to start rolling once your robot moves and they are likely to roll out of bounds as there is no wall like robocross to stop things. And that one pencil will roll out easier than you think.
- Push legos forward as part of that dice strategy.
- Run the dice strategy independantly (could either automate it, or have two people controlling. One focused on items, one on the dice.
- While the dice strategy executes, start moving the other stuff. Once trapped I'm not sure that I see a reason to start with any one class first. Maybe the ping pong balls last so you don't knock them out of the special holes while moving the pencils and legos to the egg cartons.

Hmmm, just had a thought. Could you pick up the ping pong balls with a vacuum end effector... Nothing in the rules against a small vacuum fan and hose. Seems like it would be FAR less fussy than a gripper.

Any way, some thoughts.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

I actually had the exact same thought about the ping pong balls and building a pvc vacuum. Decided against attempting to build it since it would maim that arm from being able to score points other than for ping pong balls (and seeing as how time is a factor, I didn't want to make any sacrifices.

In respect to dice, I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "fence"

[bernard]

In respect to dice, I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "fence"

Seems like material on the lateral sides of the dice that prevent it from falling out from the side as they are flipped.

[windu34]

In respect to dice, I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "fence"

Seems like material on the lateral sides of the dice that prevent it from falling out from the side as they are flipped.

Still unclear on how this would work..does it attach to the sheet?
If you could, a sketch would help.

[jander14indoor]

Sketch, yeah, with a computer. Not so much.
Fence. Think of a U shape with short up rights and WIDE bottom. The short uprights hinge off the base and the long base runs along the north edge of the robot zone. It just flops out from the base to trap the dice while you slide a think spatula like thing under them and flop another spatula on top. Pick up and flip over, slide forward into North zone.

Probably many other solutions. The idea is to keep the dice from sliding away while you slip something stiff and thin under them.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[harik2000]

Hi guys, Just as a general question, how do you guys plan on developing a master/slave kit, would creating the master system be custom-made, 3d printed, etc. I am also trying to research more on master/slave systems and i would greatly appreciate it if you can give me some links, advice, etc. Also what should be a general rule of thumb or checklist before beginning work on a master-slave system? Thanks!