Astronomy C

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Re: Astronomy C

Post by sciolymom »

syo_astro wrote:

25e: Nobody has asked 25 I think, for some reason. There's a few ways to do this one I think. There's some whole formula to find primary eclipse time. You could look that up and use that I guess. Or we can do another way! They give orbital phase on the bottom, right? If you find deltat from the beginning to end of the eclipse, then we can use that PHASE difference to figure out what the time is utilizing the given period. Phase is basically just (portion of period)/(total period), so multiplying the deltat by orbital phase is like doing ((end time)/period - (start time)/period)*period = (end - start), or the amount of time for the transit. Hope that helps, if it doesn't I'll do exact work (you asked a lot of questions, so I'm not trying to write too long an essay :P).

What is deltat and how do you find it?
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by syo_astro »

sciolymom wrote:What is deltat and how do you find it?
Yeah, I was general there. It'd probably be better to call it "full transit time" or something, I can't remember if that's the technical term for what they're asking (on the test they call it total duration of the eclipse, so I guess there's that). It's basically from the time just before the planet covers the star to just after it covers the star in this case. The line in between is produced because there is only partial covering over the object. So you should basically eye off from right before the eclipse on the line of nearly constant flux, mostly by the star to right after it. Hope that makes sense! I can't remember for sure, but the other points along the eclipse may be important too. At least it's good to recognize how the partial covering and primary/secondary eclipses work. The key to the problem, anyway, I think is just recognizing everything in the axis is divided through by period, and period is given.
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by boomvroomshroom »

Do you have any tips on reading absorption spectra? I know what they're supposed to look like and the standard absorption bands, but I saw a test recently that had cutouts from (I think) this picture and asked us to label OBAGKFM. Problem was, I couldn't distinguish between G5 and K0 (among others that are right next to each other and look really similar).
[img]http://frigg.physastro.mnsu.edu/~eskridge/astr101/kauf19_10.JPG[/img]
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by blindmewithscience »

boomvroomshroom wrote:Do you have any tips on reading absorption spectra? I know what they're supposed to look like and the standard absorption bands, but I saw a test recently that had cutouts from (I think) this picture and asked us to label OBAGKFM. Problem was, I couldn't distinguish between G5 and K0 (among others that are right next to each other and look really similar).
[img]http://frigg.physastro.mnsu.edu/~eskridge/astr101/kauf19_10.JPG[/img]
THe main difference between G5 and K0 is that K0 little dark yellow line at the NaI wavelength, while G5 does not. Every line has their own, small distinct feature--It's just a matter of finding it.
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Re: Astronomy C

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I don't know about blindmewithscience, but I was never able to find a fantastic method for spectra ID. They could give digital spectra, but it's basically the same deal, just on a graph. I think I said before (though, among giant blocks of text...) that you can simply load up a few note pages of images on spectra from various sources. At least as long as you practice a little comparing them and understanding why we see these features in general (that spectra work as "fingerprinting elements"), then when you get it on the test and compare to your notes things will get slightly easier. Another thing to understand is also spotting broadening/line strength to determine luminosity class. Again, just stock up on images and practice! You could even have your partner take random ones off the internet, and you can see how quickly you can ID them with notes (I never got to this with my partners, but at least it's hardly the whole test).
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by boomvroomshroom »

Okay! Thanks guys.
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by sciolymom »

I am having trouble finding a formula or method for determining information such as diameter from a light curve. There is a test on the test exchange, the Fayetteville test, with this question. It has a light curve diagram below, which I'm not able to copy.

8. Star J is the primary yellow star shown below and Star K is the secondary red dwarf. The time between the
two blue lines on the light curve is 15.00 minutes and Star K is moving at 1770. km/s, what is the diameter
of Star J in km? [4]

How do you approach this type of question? I don't think I'm entering the right search terms in Google. Is there a formula that relates size to period and/or speed?

Again, thank you for all the help here..
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by finagle29 »

sciolymom wrote:8. Star J is the primary yellow star shown below and Star K is the secondary red dwarf. The time between the
two blue lines on the light curve is 15.00 minutes and Star K is moving at 1770. km/s, what is the diameter
of Star J in km? [4]
Assuming that the blue lines on the light curve are at the first and third contacts (exterior ingress and egress) or second and fourth contacts (interior ingress and egress), the time it takes for the Star K to move the distance of Star J's diameter is the time between the two blue lines. This gives the following equation:
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by syo_astro »

Important vocab to use when googling: Eclipsing Binary Variable Stars, First/Second/etc Contact, Transit Light Curves

I would like to frame this further. This goes along perfectly with the idea of how eclipsing works. My problem is actually the blue lines look like the second and third contacts to me. Also, a note is that ingress is the period where the planet begins to cover the star (aka going from first to second contact, first = first side of planet begins to touch star and is where we see a BEGIN to the drop in intensity, second = where the circle of the planet fully passes over the star, so the first point of the light curve where we get the new "flat bar"). Egress is the opposite. I would personally say the question was poorly made, unless the FM people want to come on here and explain it themselves (I want to clarify no offense meant, it could be a fantastic question for all I know, and I've actually made mistakes too...to me it's not so relevant as I'll explain).

http://mafija.fmf.uni-lj.si/seminar/fil ... _stars.pdf actually explains these variable stars fairly well and is what you're looking for. Found it last year, this year search terms were: "binary star transit light curve and velocity pdf" and looked through all the pdfs I had (unless my search history is just biased >.>). The essential concept going on is that how fast the transit occurs IS related to how fast the larger and smaller objects are orbiting around eachother. It is still important in that sense for this year. If you drew a diagram, you could see the two objects for the primary eclipse at least that object 1 goes velocity v_1 say to the right. Velocity v_2 would be the opposite to the left. If you looked, relatively, the velocities would actually add! This is just like look out the window of a car and seeing cars go in the same direction as you vs. opposite directions, except the eclipse basically allows us to see this relative motion ourselves. As I recall that formula also only works with edge-on cases (I can tell the inclination...won't explain why).

My opinion is people should not be worrying too much about that one specific formula (though, I'm not putting together the questions/practicing, so others would I guess know better). For exoplanets the analysis (I can't remember why off the top of my head) tends to be measurement of flux or intensity drop on the transit curve to get radius. My guess would be that it's more difficult to get the Doppler spectroscopy measurements for systems over time, which would be necessary for constructing radial velocity curves. This is why more often we use transit method, it is photometric (and you can think on why that's easier to measure :) ). With just photometric data alone, though, the flux drop ratio gives the radius pretty directly (I think this has been discussed).

This is part of the issue with trying to only go off past tests for this year, you have to judge carefully!
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Re: Astronomy C

Post by sciolymom »

Thank you Syo Astro! I found this also about exoplanet radius related to transit, which may be more related to this year's topic...but it looks like you would have to have the radius of the host star to start with.

http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/ ... 181811.pdf
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