Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Locked
Skink
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 948
Joined: February 8th, 2009, 12:23 pm
Division: C
State: IL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by Skink »

Agreed. I had similar results mainly with wood (as opposed to cardboard), clever foil use, and another common household item that I won't be sharing because it's my trump card. My advice on that note is know how heat transfers in practice. Yeah, you have to learn the theory for the test portion, but you can go far if you try to minimize certain types of heat flow with whatever you have at home that won't rake up exorbitant costs (especially if you build several of these over the course of the season!).
retired1
Member
Member
Posts: 676
Joined: July 25th, 2012, 5:04 pm
Division: Grad
State: FL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by retired1 »

I think that our teams used your trump card also last year. With the new rules, there is better and just as simple.
Kevin Chen
Member
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: November 2nd, 2012, 8:09 pm
Division: B
State: CA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by Kevin Chen »

Is dried moss and/or straw a good insulator? If so, where can you get these materials? And also, is clay and aluminum foil allowed in the 2012-2013 competition? :?: :oops:
Kevin Chen
Member
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: November 2nd, 2012, 8:09 pm
Division: B
State: CA
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by Kevin Chen »

If you buy an insulator (moss, straw, down, etc) that's natural, is it considered commercial?
siciscio
Member
Member
Posts: 50
Joined: December 30th, 2011, 11:32 am
Division: C
State: NY
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by siciscio »

Kevin Chen wrote:Is dried moss and/or straw a good insulator? If so, where can you get these materials? And also, is clay and aluminum foil allowed in the <a href="tel:2012-2013">2012-2013</a> competition? :?: :oops:
I think so. But I can't tell you how well. Perhaps a quick search on Wikipedia would help? Look around you, I think you'd be able to find them in places such as Lowes, Home Depot, or even local farms. Worst comes worst you might be able to order it online :mrgreen: The rules say nothing about not not allowing clay or aluminum foil, so I think you can use them. Unless you find them to be commercial insulation :P
Then again this isn't a place for event clarifications.
Kevin Chen wrote:If you buy an insulator (moss, straw, down, etc) that's natural, is it considered commercial?
Generally I would consider only items that were intentionally sold as inulators like the insulation material for the walls and such. (again not a place for clarifications) So I'd be more concerned with insulators that weren't natural, like foam. (which is already excluded from the materials we could use ;) )
If it helps the no commercial insulation rule was was there last year as well. And I was able to pass through competition just fine by using natural insulators.

Sorry about the rant, I hope it helps :roll:
WindPower, Bridges.
retired1
Member
Member
Posts: 676
Joined: July 25th, 2012, 5:04 pm
Division: Grad
State: FL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by retired1 »

Kevin Chen wrote:Is dried moss and/or straw a good insulator? If so, where can you get these materials? And also, is clay and aluminum foil allowed in the 2012-2013 competition? :?: :oops:
Out of curiosity, why would you want to use clay or aluminum foil???? Look at the factors that are in "specific heat" Weight is one.
chalker7
Member
Member
Posts: 612
Joined: September 27th, 2010, 5:31 pm
Division: Grad
State: HI
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by chalker7 »

retired1 wrote:
Out of curiosity, why would you want to use clay or aluminum foil???? Look at the factors that are in "specific heat" Weight is one.
Not commenting on legality, for that check the rules and/or submit an official clarification. Aluminum foil is great at protecting water-sensitive components from steam in a cheap and easy to apply manner. When baked, certain types of clay will turn into a light and highly insulating hard ceramics.
National event supervisor - Wright Stuff, Helicopters
Hawaii State Director
retired1
Member
Member
Posts: 676
Joined: July 25th, 2012, 5:04 pm
Division: Grad
State: FL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by retired1 »

Everyone has opinions and ideas about materials and I am rather opinionated until I find something better. With any non foam plastic allowed, there is not much use for ceramics or aluminum foil. They both absorb heat more than most plastics. If they absorb heat, they will transmit it. Vacuum is the ultimate, but dual wall, air center,hot cups work very well. Trapped air is why many insulators work so well.
chalker
Member
Member
Posts: 2107
Joined: January 9th, 2009, 7:30 pm
Division: Grad
State: OH
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by chalker »

retired1 wrote: dual wall, air center,hot cups work very well. Trapped air is why many insulators work so well.
Please keep in mind that many people would view an off the shelf 'hot cup' as a commercial insulator since it's primary purpose is to insulate a beverage. Thus it would be prohibited by the rules. My recommendation is not to think of the 'commercial insulation' only in terms of things you'd buy in home depot (e.g. fiberglass, cellulose, etc), but also in terms of finished products designed / marketed to keep things cold or warm (e.g. coffee cups, blankets, foil lined lunch bags, etc).

Of course standard disclaimer about this not being the place for official clarifications, etc. etc. If in doubt, please submit a question on soinc.org.

Student Alumni
National Event Supervisor
National Physical Sciences Rules Committee Chair
retired1
Member
Member
Posts: 676
Joined: July 25th, 2012, 5:04 pm
Division: Grad
State: FL
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

Post by retired1 »

Did not mean to suggest that people use dual wall cups, but to show that dual wall type construction was a rather simple effective way of having minimal heat loss. I agree, it would not be legal to use a commercial cup.
Locked

Return to “2013 Lab Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests