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It would help to post the label.

On the National site, three weeks ago, I asked for a rule clarification, but I have not received a reply. So, I would like to ask it here.
At an invitational tournament in January, my teams were penalized for having graduated cylinders in their bins. They were told they had to mass their water.

I cannot find anywhere in the rules that states that measuring devices are not allowed.

I also cannot find anywhere in the rules that states that teams must "mass" their water before using their calorimeter.

I am looking for an answer from someone who had a definitive answer, like a forum moderator, or a national event supervisor.

Thank you.

cwscio wrote:I am looking for an answer from someone who had a definitive answer, like a forum moderator, or a national event supervisor.

Quick note about this: no answer given here will be definitive, even if by a national event supervisor. The answers you get will probably be the best path to doing well, but the only official interpretations are from the national FAQs and rules clarifications (which even then, uninterested event supervisors are liable to ignore).

From a quick reading of the rules, I can't figure out anything either way (I have no direct experience with this event). How does measuring the volume help vs. measuring mass? In what manner did the event supervisor penalize your teams? (it should have been nothing more than just not allowing them to use the graduated cylinders)

cwscio wrote:On the National site, three weeks ago, I asked for a rule clarification, but I have not received a reply. So, I would like to ask it here.
At an invitational tournament in January, my teams were penalized for having graduated cylinders in their bins. They were told they had to mass their water.

I cannot find anywhere in the rules that states that measuring devices are not allowed.

I also cannot find anywhere in the rules that states that teams must "mass" their water before using their calorimeter.

I am looking for an answer from someone who had a definitive answer, like a forum moderator, or a national event supervisor.

Thank you.

Sorry, I'm not exactly a moderator or event supervisor, but here's my answer:
In 2b of the rules, it says that the event supervisor is supposed to provide a device to mass the water. In 2a, it does not say anywhere that graduated cylinders are permitted (although it allows the use of beakers), so technically graduated cylinders are not allowed. I would recommend giving the competitors beakers instead, just to be safe.

Well, the intent of the rules isn't unclear, as noted above. Participants may bring mixing apparatuses for doing their chemistry. Graduated cylinders have been used in the laboratory to mix solutions, yes, but it's rarely and definitely not in middle school. They're volumetric primarily and usually. I'd take them out of the box, as they'll be provided if needed (or expected to be used!). The reason is that having them in the box may give your team a competitive advantage over teams not bringing them. Plus, having them risks incurring a penalty again.

It's interesting - Crime Busters is the most similar event (bring a kit with you to perform lab tests at competition). However, the rules of Crime Busters clearly state: "Students may bring only specified items...supervisors will check the kits, confiscate non-allowed items, and have the right to penalize... up to 10%"

No such language appears in Food Science. I wonder if this is an oversight, a space saving issue for the rule book, or just different writing styles produced by two different event authors? It seems as though including a clause like that in the Food Science rules would save a lot of trouble.

I checked the official PPT for Food Science (https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/fil ... y2017.pptx) and it clearly did not list graduated cylinders or anything that could be misinterpreted as one.
In addition, it says that the supervisors must provide "glassware". Graduated cylinders are definitely glassware.

The only issue I'm having with this is that I'm certain I brought a graduated cylinder to an invy and they approved of it...
Then again, invys arent always the most well-run competitions :/

hey me and my partner took a test the other day and it had a food label on it and said we had to calculate the calories from fats, carbs, and proteins. the numbers we used were 9 cals/g of fat; 4 cals/g of carb; and 4 cals/g of protein. however, we got a different number than what they had on the answer key, they were using different numbers for calculations ( i dont exactly remember but i think it was 9.3/g of fat; 4.1/ g of carb; and 5.6/g of protein). can anyone help with this?

anisah1234 wrote:hey me and my partner took a test the other day and it had a food label on it and said we had to calculate the calories from fats, carbs, and proteins. the numbers we used were 9 cals/g of fat; 4 cals/g of carb; and 4 cals/g of protein. however, we got a different number than what they had on the answer key, they were using different numbers for calculations ( i dont exactly remember but i think it was 9.3/g of fat; 4.1/ g of carb; and 5.6/g of protein). can anyone help with this?

I believe the 4/4/9 rule applies to the calories used by the body and 4.1/5.6/9.3 applies to the amount of calories actually present in the food

This isn't a discussion I was going to start, but I'm definitely participating now that it's a thing!

SPP SciO wrote:It's interesting - Crime Busters is the most similar event (bring a kit with you to perform lab tests at competition). However, the rules of Crime Busters clearly state: "Students may bring only specified items...supervisors will check the kits, confiscate non-allowed items, and have the right to penalize... up to 10%"

No such language appears in Food Science. I wonder if this is an oversight, a space saving issue for the rule book, or just different writing styles produced by two different event authors? It seems as though including a clause like that in the Food Science rules would save a lot of trouble.

The closest events are Powders and P&P, the ones in its rotation. Powders did have that provision as I recall, and there were thought-provoking discussions on this site concerning that a couple years ago. Amidst that, I made a very interesting comment that I have to append to my last post. Apparently, the graduated cylinder problem isn't new to me because I submitted a FAQ for it that got an official response. From my e-mail:

Thank you for your question. A response to your question has been posted on
the website www.soinc.org
The original question is included for your records; there is no need to
respond unless you feel there is an error.
============================================================================
Question:
Are graduated cylinders "similar small containers for mixing", or are
they a piece of equipment that event supervisors are supposed to bring (per
section 2.b.vi.) that could incur the penalty noted in section 2 line 3?

============================================================================
Answer:
Small graduated cylinders are permissible in the students kits. Event
supervisors should not confiscate them.

Now, old FAQ responses aren't tournament-enforceable, but they do shed light on how others feel about the issue. Formally, in that year, I was wrong. Obviously not convinced, though...as for the penalty allowance, have older versions of this event, specifically, ever have it? I don't recall if and can't figure out why Powders and CB have it and this doesn't, but it's interesting to think about.