Egg-O-Naut C

[jazzy009]

There's a difference between thinking outside the box and stretching the rules.

Yes, but there can be a relationship. The question I came here with related to stored energy in something like a marginally stretched rubber band. That's tugging a bit on the rules, enough that it might not be worth risking in competition.

...No offense, but I think "marginally stretching" a rubber band is not tugging the rules, but flat out breaking them.

We managed about a 30 second flight with a fake egg last weekend...only problem is the egg fell out before the height...so really just the parachute was floating. It's probably about a 20 second flight with the egg.

[seoliver]

...No offense, but I think "marginally stretching" a rubber band is not tugging the rules, but flat out breaking them.

No offense taken. You are quite correct, it is against the rules. The "spirit", I'm not so sure.

So try the other side of the legal/illegal boundary. What do you think of the He rocket http://gallery.scioly.org/details.php?image_id=907 ? Technically legal (unless parachutes are illegal), but I'm not sure I would want to try it.

[wlsguy]

There's a difference between thinking outside the box and stretching the rules.

Yes, but there can be a relationship. The question I came here with related to stored energy in something like a marginally stretched rubber band. That's tugging a bit on the rules, enough that it might not be worth risking in competition.

The crazy idea of dumping the contents of the egg come somewhere between the first 2 general rules.

1. Teams may not interpret the rules so that they have an unfair advantage over the rules or another team.

2. Unless otherwise stated, it is generally understood that if notes, resources, calculators, actions etc., are not excluded, then they are permitted unless they violate the spirit of the problem.

These rules tend to contradict each other. It's up to the event supervisors to use good judgement to determine the cases that cross the lines.
In competition we need to insure all of the teams have the same chance of succeeding. In the real world, the rules are less black and white and tend to be more of a grey color. This is where those who think outside the box will have the real advantage in the future.

[seoliver]

We managed about a 30 second flight with a fake egg last weekend...only problem is the egg fell out before the height...so really just the parachute was floating. It's probably about a 20 second flight with the egg.

Very good. We have had several liberated eggs flying free, and we have also been left estimating. How big was the parachute? Was it pulled out of the body of the rocket, or was it housed in the nosecone?

[jazzy009]

We ended up just putting the parachute on the nosecone, we had trouble deploying it from within the pocket. It was a garbage bag with about 23 in radius.

[fleet130]

RE: Dumping the egg on the groundI

I understood this was meant to illustrate an idea and not as a viable proposal, however; it is a good example of how teams sometimes attempt to "trick" the rules.

First thought that came to mind: This is an obvious attempt to gain an unfair advantage (translation: cheating) AND it violates the spirit of the competition.

The "spirit of the competition" clause is often misapplied, but I think it's appropriate in this case. Whenever I suspect the "spirit" is violated, I go immediately to the first paragraph of the event rules which states the objective (at least it's supposed to) of the event.

Para. 1 (in part)states: "designed to carry an Egg-O-Naut (a raw Grade A large chicken egg), stay aloft the greatest amount of time and return to earth without breaking the egg

Any plan that involved intentionally breaking the egg would violate this (designed to return without breaking the egg), so you wound need to make it look accidental. If not = DQ

Para.3.a (in part)states: "teams will receive 1 egg per rocket, add any amount of water and load their egg in each rocket"

I would bet my money that the judges will contend that the word "will" applies to all three phrases(i.e. will receive 1 egg, will add water and will load their egg). Additionally they will contend the sentence does not say "load part of the egg", so you better get it all off the ground.
Best case: Egg not loaded = no launch = Participation only
Worst case: Intentional attempt= DQ

I liked the "zero seconds" interpretation, but that would only place you at the bottom of tier 1. The interpretation above could get you disqualified! My interpretation could depend, somewhat on how much static you gave me. I might go with the lessor penalty if a team presented a rational argument and with the greater penalty if they tried to BS me!

Finally: There is an old saying I've heard many times regarding judging this kind of situation: "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and craps like a duck, It's a duck. End of discussion!" (not exactly a direct quote, but close!)

[seoliver]

We ended up just putting the parachute on the nosecone, we had trouble deploying it from within the pocket. It was a garbage bag with about 23 in radius.

I like that arrangement, but we've found it a bit aerodynamically challenged. It's hard to get satisfactory altitude. I understand that some teams have been able to get larger (up to 36") 'chutes to deploy, but not us: we're jut now getting 2-footers to work, and even those are taking too long to inflate.

[Celeste]

We ended up just putting the parachute on the nosecone, we had trouble deploying it from within the pocket. It was a garbage bag with about 23 in radius.

I like that arrangement, but we've found it a bit aerodynamically challenged. It's hard to get satisfactory altitude. I understand that some teams have been able to get larger (up to 36") 'chutes to deploy, but not us: we're jut now getting 2-footers to work, and even those are taking too long to inflate.

I've got a 28 inch diameter chute made from a trash bag that deploys really well, about 9 out of 10 times it work. You can also use 2 or 3 smaller chutes (I'm using 18 inch diameters), but it's really tough to get them all to deploy right.

[wlsguy]

We ended up just putting the parachute on the nosecone, we had trouble deploying it from within the pocket. It was a garbage bag with about 23 in radius.

I like that arrangement, but we've found it a bit aerodynamically challenged. It's hard to get satisfactory altitude. I understand that some teams have been able to get larger (up to 36") 'chutes to deploy, but not us: we're jut now getting 2-footers to work, and even those are taking too long to inflate.

One of the more interesting designs I saw at an invitational involved using a small 8~12" parachute already deployed on the outside of the nosecone. It was draped over the outside. It was then connected to a much larger 36+ parachute inside the nose. When the rocket fell, it pulled the larger chute out at the top of the flight. Both rockets had their parachute deploy correctly.

[rocketchicka]

Ok...my partner and I were out practicing today and our parachutes arn't working! They don't deploy until they're about a foot off the ground. Does anyone know the cause? I would really appreciate some help....I leave for states in three days!