Scioly.org

blockhead wrote:This is to flavflo. Winning middle school team gives a high school SO team a boost but maybe not for the obvious reasons. Not all the Division C team were on winning teams of SO in middle school anyway since only one of the teams for each district can go on. When a team losses at the Regional or state level, their season ends. Those that win and go on continue working for a long time. When they start up again the next year, the students who return on the winning team had worked an extra 4 months the previous year. So even in September teams are very different.

I wouldn't really agree with this. A lot of the powerhouse states like Ohio hold their states like 2-4 weeks before Nationals, so it's not exactly the biggest study period. Additionally, it's not exactly possible to spend summer studying when rules aren't released until like September. Hence, every team kind of starts on equal ground every school year. I think the biggest factor is knowing how to compete in events, rather than knowing just the knowledge in events. The benefit of a successful middle school team transitions into having a high school team that knows exactly how to prepare for study events/build mechanicals. But the tricky part is that it needs to cycle. A successful high school team must be willing to re-contribute back to the middle school team, providing back to the newbies with coaching or advice, that allows them to succeed. The interconnection between the Solon MS and HS teams is what's allowed it to continue its dominance for the past few years. Additionally, having alumni to ask for help is a big plus too.

Im sure the factors that are operative are complex ones. What drives a winning team in Ohio may be different than what does so in NY. The fact that winning teams continue to work on events for months after other teams stop certainly helps in the early rounds for teams I know. The teams that don't go on from regionals stop working in December or January-whereas a team that goes all the way has up to 5 more months of working 24/7. Next fall, the team with members who worked 5 more months is very different from one that had only a few months experience. Does that exert a difference at states between 1,2,and 3. I'll say no, it is important in the very earliest rounds making it hard for the other local teams to catch up to the one that went the distance the year before. But then other factors become important at the state level. A winning coach it probably the biggest factor. The coach extracts the greatest effort from students, knows how to select and motivate students, can foresee and avoid pitfalls/rookie errors, and on. For the teams I know best, the high school team was winning first; then the middle school one. And the middle school did not start winning because high school students helped out. What drives wins for both schools is outstanding dedicated coaches;students come and go. Obviously they have to be excellent for a team to win but the constant for the teams I know is the excellence of the coaches. So an excellent coach is essential but may not be enough since there are excellent coaches on teams that don't always win. My impression is that there are so many differences between the Ohio and NY teams that hugely different factors may be operating.

blockhead wrote:Im sure the factors that are operative are complex ones. What drives a winning team in Ohio may be different than what does so in NY. The fact that winning teams continue to work on events for months after other teams stop certainly helps in the early rounds for teams I know. The teams that don't go on from regionals stop working in December or January-whereas a team that goes all the way has up to 5 more months of working 24/7. Next fall, the team with members who worked 5 more months is very different from one that had only a few months experience. Does that exert a difference at states between 1,2,and 3. I'll say no, it is important in the very earliest rounds making it hard for the other local teams to catch up to the one that went the distance the year before. But then other factors become important at the state level. A winning coach it probably the biggest factor. The coach extracts the greatest effort from students, knows how to select and motivate students, can foresee and avoid pitfalls/rookie errors, and on. For the teams I know best, the high school team was winning first; then the middle school one. And the middle school did not start winning because high school students helped out. What drives wins for both schools is outstanding dedicated coaches;students come and go. Obviously they have to be excellent for a team to win but the constant for the teams I know is the excellence of the coaches. So an excellent coach is essential but may not be enough since there are excellent coaches on teams that don't always win. My impression is that there are so many differences between the Ohio and NY teams that hugely different factors may be operating.

There are also huge differences within states like Ohio. For example, at a high school like Centerville there at times is almost a 1:1 ratio between coaches and students, whereas at Solon, there is essentially only 1 coach. I'd suggest that the old adage 'success begets success' really applies. If a team is successful, then the next year more students will want to participate, meaning there is more commitment, etc.

chalker wrote:

blockhead wrote:Im sure the factors that are operative are complex ones. What drives a winning team in Ohio may be different than what does so in NY. The fact that winning teams continue to work on events for months after other teams stop certainly helps in the early rounds for teams I know. The teams that don't go on from regionals stop working in December or January-whereas a team that goes all the way has up to 5 more months of working 24/7. Next fall, the team with members who worked 5 more months is very different from one that had only a few months experience. Does that exert a difference at states between 1,2,and 3. I'll say no, it is important in the very earliest rounds making it hard for the other local teams to catch up to the one that went the distance the year before. But then other factors become important at the state level. A winning coach it probably the biggest factor. The coach extracts the greatest effort from students, knows how to select and motivate students, can foresee and avoid pitfalls/rookie errors, and on. For the teams I know best, the high school team was winning first; then the middle school one. And the middle school did not start winning because high school students helped out. What drives wins for both schools is outstanding dedicated coaches;students come and go. Obviously they have to be excellent for a team to win but the constant for the teams I know is the excellence of the coaches. So an excellent coach is essential but may not be enough since there are excellent coaches on teams that don't always win. My impression is that there are so many differences between the Ohio and NY teams that hugely different factors may be operating.

There are also huge differences within states like Ohio. For example, at a high school like Centerville there at times is almost a 1:1 ratio between coaches and students, whereas at Solon, there is essentially only 1 coach. I'd suggest that the old adage 'success begets success' really applies. If a team is successful, then the next year more students will want to participate, meaning there is more commitment, etc.

A 1:1 ratio that's slightly insane.

Regionals Boomilever: breaks when we put the bucket on. But maybe a 33% chance still. Robo-Cross had a perfect score

TavinM wrote:Regionals Boomilever: breaks when we put the bucket on.

That happened to our Invites (Palatine) boomilever.

This is our very first year as a school, we have barely any eighth graders, and nobody on our SciOly team has ever done it before this year. HOWEVER, we still won first at Regionals. So I'd say... we have a small chance of going to Nationals, but it's significant enough. I don't really care whether we go to Nationals or not, I just don't want to embarrass our school after our big win. Getting like, 5th or higher would be amazing.

Congratulations to you and your team, ceg7654.That is quite a remarkable accomplishment. Good luck at States.

blockhead wrote:Congratulations to you and your team, ceg7654.That is quite a remarkable accomplishment. Good luck at States.

Thank you. It really means a lot to us.

mrburrito wrote:I think my team can make it to nationals. We are better than we were last year, and we made it last year. Not going to put a guarantee on anything though.

You'd better not!