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Re: Astronomy C

Posted: January 31st, 2014, 5:53 am
by Schrodingerscat
hexagonaria wrote:Hi people.
So, I understand how astronomical coordinates are written as right ascension and declination, but I'm confused about how they can actually be used to locate DSOs. I mean, the Earth rotates on its axis every 24 hours, and orbits around the sun approximately once a year. So, wouldn't the right ascension of an object in space be constantly changing throughout the day and the year? So if I told you to find an object at RA: 02h 19m 20.70s and DEC: -02° 58' 39.51" , when would you take that measurement?
There are two different coordinate system: Horizontal and Equatorial.
Horizontal coordinates use azimuth and altitude and are relative to a observer's position and time.
However, equatorial coordinates, with RA and azimuth, are more or less absolute. The celestial equator and poles are defined with a declination of 0 and +/- 90 degrees respectively, and RA is defined from the equinox, making it mostly time independent for practical purposes.

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: January 31st, 2014, 6:25 am
by EastStroudsburg13
You can take that measurement at any time. This is because right ascension moves along with the celestial sphere, so as an object moves from the east to the west, the right ascension value that it corresponds with also "moves". Much like longitude, even though the Earth rotates, the network of longitudes also rotates along with it.

Because of this, it might seem impossible to know how to figure out the right ascension at any given time, but luckily there are two values that help in this regard. These two values are hour angle and sidereal time. Hour Angle is a measure that shows an object's relative position to the observer. Like RA, it ranges from 0h to 24h, with 0h at the star's highest point, 6h to the right, 12h at the lowest, and 18h to the left. In the following diagram, the circumpolar star would have an hour angle of 0h at its highest point and 12h at its lowest point:
Image

Local sidereal time (LST) is a way of measuring time with regard to the stars. One full sidereal day is the time it takes for the Earth to completely rotate back to the same position of the stars. On Earth we typically use solar time to measure time, i.e. how long it takes for the Earth to rotate back to the same position relative to the Sun. However, since the Earth also revolves around the Sun, it takes a little extra rotation to get back to the same position. Because of this, a sidereal day is shorter than a solar day. This diagram may be helpful, where 1 -> 2 is a sidereal day, and 1 -> 3 is a solar day:
Image

Now how are these all related? Well luckily there is a simple mathematical relationship:

This really illustrates how the stars move through the sky. First, note that at any given sidereal time, the night sky will always look the same. Even though the solar time might be drastically different, the stars' positions at the same LST will always have the same HA, since the stars must always have the same RA. At different times of any given night, the HA changes, but since the LST changes as well, the RA remains the same for any given star. Also, at different times of the year, the sidereal time at midnight will be different, but as you might know, the sky appears different at different times of the year, so when you account for hour angles, the RA is the same!

This can be a little difficult to really grasp, since there are so many times going around, so here's an example. Beta Cassiopeiae has a right ascension of about 0. However, let's say you're stargazing and you see it appears to the direct right of Polaris. This means that Beta Cas has a hour angle of 6, and so through the mathematical relationship, you can calculate the LST to be about 18:00 (since we don't want negative time). It doesn't matter what the solar time is, it could be 6 AM or 6 PM, but whenever the hour angle of Beta Cas is 6, the LST will always be 18:00. This makes Beta Cas helpful for finding sidereal time, since it is easy to find (it's the right-most star in the W/left-most star in the M) and has a RA of about 0.

This is probably way more than you wanted, or needed, to know. But basically, if you were to take that measurement, you can find the sidereal time, and then using the formula, calculate the hour angle, which is where in the sky you would expect it to be. This allows RA to be a standard coordinate for the entire world to use, without worrying about when the measurements are being taken.

Hope this helps!

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: January 31st, 2014, 2:59 pm
by hexagonaria
EASTstroudsburg13 wrote:You can take that measurement at any time. This is because right ascension moves along with the celestial sphere, so as an object moves from the east to the west, the right ascension value that it corresponds with also "moves". Much like longitude, even though the Earth rotates, the network of longitudes also rotates along with it....
You are amazing, East. I had some big misconceptions here, but the way you explained it made a lot of sense. I don't really know if this sort of knowledge will be terribly pertinent for the competition, but not understanding it was bugging the pigeon out of me, so thank you!
If you ever want to know anything about Rocks and Minerals, shoot me a message ;)
And thank you as well SchrodingersCat

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: January 31st, 2014, 3:23 pm
by EastStroudsburg13
No problem, really! We covered a lot of that stuff in my Observational Astrophysics class last semester so it's pretty fresh in my mind. It also makes a fairly good party trick to be able to tell the sidereal time at night, even though people are rather unlikely to care about sidereal time and are more interested in constellations. :roll:

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: February 5th, 2014, 8:15 pm
by identicalgamer
Hey, I am kind of new to this event and was wondering if anyone would be able to look over the information I have gotten together so far. In my state this is a binder event (no laptops) meaning that all of the information that I have so far is going to have to be printed off and put inside of a binder.

Here is my work so far:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bWY ... sp=sharing

Please leave comments on it or tell me what you think here.

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: February 6th, 2014, 7:49 pm
by lmatkovic3
Since when can states change the official rules?

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: February 6th, 2014, 8:00 pm
by chalker
lmatkovic3 wrote:Since when can states change the official rules?
Since forever. Lots of states issue state-specific rule changes. heck some states even run state-specific events that aren't part of the normal slate of events.

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: February 7th, 2014, 5:10 pm
by astro124
Hey guys, quick question. Last year and this year I've encountered the terms 'spectra' and 'light curves'. Ever since then I've been trying to figure out what they are and how they relate to DSOs and the topic for the event, but I can't seem to figure it out. Can anyone help?

Also, last year on my state's Astro test, there was a lot of 'find the distance' problems and they would only give the luminosity in solar luminosities. I've been trying to figure out a conversion equation to convert solar luminosities to absolute magnitude. I think I've found it, but I would like to run it through you guys first.

Thanks!

M = 4.85 - 2.5 log10 L (solar units)

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: February 7th, 2014, 5:22 pm
by Schrodingerscat
A spectrum is effectively the "rainbow" created when one splits the light from an object. Depending upon the type it can either consist of dark lines in a bright spectrum or a collection of bright lines on an otherwise dim spectrum. From the lines, one can identify the chemical composition of the object creating the spectrum (and a few other things such as velocity, etc.).
A light curve measures the brightness of an object over time. Different types of variable stars have characteristic light curves. For example, Cepheids are very sinusoidal with a regular period in the order of a few works, while type Ia supernovae have their characteristic peaks.
The equation looks correct to me. 2.5 magnitude corresponds to a 10 times difference in brightness, and 4.85 is the absolute magnitude of the Sun.

Re: Astronomy C

Posted: February 7th, 2014, 5:30 pm
by Crazy Puny Man
I have 4.83...ah whatever it hardly makes a difference :P

Another thing to note: spectra can be plotted on an x/y plane, with the x-axis being wavelength, and the y-axis being intensity/brightness (so each point on the line represents the intensity of its corresponding wavelength - does that make sense?). A light curve will have brightness/absolute magnitude/luminosity/etc. on its y-axis, and time on its x-axis

Be sure to check your axes for which type of graph you have so you don't get confused with what you're looking at