2011-2012 Rules

[jarrred_1415]

Since the key to a successful helicopter is weight management, how about adding a bonus for extra removeable weight carried.
The weight would need to be both removable, not contribute to the lift of the helicopter (like an extra rotor), and weighed after the flights
Maybe something like + 10% to the flight time for each full gram carried above the minimum weight up to maximum of +30%.
If your helicopter is just overweight, it wouldn't count as a bonus because it is not removable.

Just a thought to mix it up next year.
Thanks

Great idea!!!!!
adds a extra dimension to the event for very minimal extra effort by the event supervisor.

i think adding a minimum required flight time would also be helpful so that you prevent someone from having a 10 second flight with a HUGE weight so that it keeps the spirit of the rules intact.

[jander14indoor]

There's been much discussion on whether we should allow the upper rotor to stop because of how hard it is to judge if the helicopter is self supporting when potentially way overhead. On another list we've tried to figure out if it was even realistic to expect longer flights in this condition or if it was only possible if the stopped top rotor was in fact helping hold the copter to the ceiling by friction or whatever.

One solution proposed was tethers.

How about this idea? Give a significant bonus for no touch flights. No touch could be any part of the ceiling, or include ANYTHING (walls speakers, wires, basketball supports, whatever) between when the copter left the competitors hands and when it hits the floor. And it has to hit the floor, not hang up someplace else. Something large enough to offset the stopped rotor flight benefit. That would keep the free flight aspect, avoid the complication of tether, and really pay the teams who've dialed in their copters.

Thoughts, problems, likes, dislikes?

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[wlsguy]

Competitive "No touch flights" are impossible for helicopters.
If such a bonus existed, it would never result in a winner (even if it was 2 or 3 times the flight duration).

The torque curve of the rubber motor is too great and the lift generated by the rotors is too low.
Also, all of the issues with event location (that are beyond the control of most event supervisors) would greatly play into the event.

Friction is not a force that can be used to hold 2 objects together unless they are "stuck" Once the torque falls sufficently, the helicopter will come down unless it is stuck.
If a team gets lucky and has the rotor get stuck and then come loose, good for them. Luck is part of every event in Science Olympiad.

As far as top rotor stoppage, it is easy to resolve, use 2 stopwatches.
Start both at the same time (when the helicopter is released).
Stop the first one when the top rotor stops.
Stop the 2nd if the copter reaches the ground.
If the helicopter is stuck, use the first time, otherwise use the 2nd time.

[chalker7]

That's not necessarily true. The winning flight at nationals last year never made it above 30 feet, yet still exceeded 2 minutes. It hovered 50 feet below the ceiling as compared to other teams that were getting stuck at 80 feet.
However, I acknowledge that it was a significant exception and yes, the torque curve for rubber motors makes hovering extremely difficult (certainly substantially more difficult than maintaining an even cruise with a Wright Stuff plane).

[wlsguy]

ok,
maybe I shouldn't have said impossible but, unless you have a ceiling height like the Armory (at 80'), "no touch" flights will not be competitive.
This year I have seen several flights over 2 minutes and none of them were "no touch".
I think the best no touch flight I have seen this year was probably in the 20~30 second range.

[aubrey048]

There's been much discussion on whether we should allow the upper rotor to stop because of how hard it is to judge if the helicopter is self supporting when potentially way overhead. On another list we've tried to figure out if it was even realistic to expect longer flights in this condition or if it was only possible if the stopped top rotor was in fact helping hold the copter to the ceiling by friction or whatever.

One solution proposed was tethers.

How about this idea? Give a significant bonus for no touch flights. No touch could be any part of the ceiling, or include ANYTHING (walls speakers, wires, basketball supports, whatever) between when the copter left the competitors hands and when it hits the floor. And it has to hit the floor, not hang up someplace else. Something large enough to offset the stopped rotor flight benefit. That would keep the free flight aspect, avoid the complication of tether, and really pay the teams who've dialed in their copters.

Thoughts, problems, likes, dislikes?

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

I think it's a bad idea (too complicated). But it would be quite remarkable if you could achieve it.

[thewinner]

I don't think it's very complicated. At least, not for the event supervisors. But unless there was a really big bonus, I doubt 'no-touch' flights would be competitive.

[new horizon]

Having a bonus for no touch flights is a really good idea. It accomplishes the same thing as a tether, but it requires time for competitors to be able to understand the concept of torque involved and force them to take some serious time to trim their helicopters. Although the most we've gotten on said flights is about 40 or so seconds, a 2 or maybe 2.5 times bonus will bring that time to a time that would rival using a tether anyway. One of the reasons I don't like the idea of a tether is that it is really unfair to teams who practice a lot with torque and trimming their helicopters when other teams don't put the same amount of time in and get practically the same times because they would be using a tether. A no-touch bonus would help by urging competitors to not be lazy and actually spend time learning about torque and trimming their helicopters, and it would ensure that even if there was some bad luck involved with a second flight, a competitor who spent time trimming their helicopter and testing with torque would be able to at least medal, whereas with the current rules they may not place (depending on how competitive the state is).

[illusionist]

With a large bonus (x2 or x2.5 as said above) I would love that idea. It would be possible to focus on a 30 second no-touch flight, learn the essentials of flight, and still be competitive with 1:30 teams who bounce on the ceiling. I'm up for it.

[thewinner]

ME TOO.