National Qualification

[Deeisenberg]

My bigger problem is the mindset in science olympiad. People don't want to win enough. People aren't hunting for a championship like they are in any high school sport and 75% of other academic teams. It seems that the vast majority of teams are concerned with having fun above all else. Now please don't misquote me, having fun is the most important part of Science Olympiad, but fun should be coming naturally from learning and climbing the ranks. Enjoyment in Science Olympiad, it seems for most, doesn't come from a killer mindset and a desire to win state but from other aspects of this organization.

And that brings me to my final point, I really don't care (especially considering I am now an alum), if that is the direction in which Science Olympiad moves, but if a majority of the teams don't have that killer mentality, if a majority of teams at nationals aren't competitive and wouldn't place in the top 5 in my old state, if a majority of teams look at science olympiad only as fun and forget that it is also a competition, then i simply see the paradox that presents itself. Science Olympiad cannot consider itself a competition forum the way it does now if it continues to be filled with teams that display the previously mentioned characteristics.

There are plenty of teams that have a a huge number of teams with a highly competitive mindset at various regionals. There are plenty (though fewer) of teams with the same sort of mindset at states. There are (depending on the year) about 10-20 teams that go into nationals with a highly competitive mindset.
Competitiveness is at all levels, all different levels. Now my region is a bad example (I think that it's fair to say the region that I am in is one of the 2 or three most competitive regionals in the country for C division with 2 teams having made top 10 at nationals consistently, and at least 2 other teams quite possibly capable of doing so if they could make it past states.) but if you go to a random region in the country, there will usually be competition to get either 1st, or top 10, or get to states, what have you. At any given state competition, there will be some teams vying for 1st, others for 2nd, others for top 5 or 10 etc. At nationals this trend continues.
Just because most teams aren't competitive at ALL levels, doesn't mean they aren't competitive. In high school sports competitions, there are some teams that consistently want to do well at districts (if that). There are other teams that are consistently very good that may aim (realistically, not pep talk sort of "aiming") to rank first in their state every year. Does that mean that other teams with their sights set lower aren't competitive at their own respective levels? No it doesn't.
Also look at teams when they place in whatever they consider to be a very good place for them at any competition. Are they or are they not clearly ecstatic at their accomplishment?
Every team has it's goals (clearly stated or not), every team gets enjoyment from fulfilling them. These goals vary. The thing is that all of the other sorts of fun are much more universal across teams in my opinion. The goals of these things don't have to be stated and so they are all more readily comparable than the various competition goals of each team.
Also people tend to speak in a much more competitive manner within their own teams. As with everything people change what they say and how they say it based on audience and venue. I can't really describe this in depth, it varies by team, person, situation, many things. I do think however it generally holds true, and that if people think about that, they will agree (with the last part, you may or may not agree with my other opinions expressed in this post).

[AIME15]

Sorry for getting a bit off-topic here, but I'm quite new and I'm wondering how qualifying to Nationals works.

From state to nationals: I've heard it's top 2 teams in the sate (or in my case, half-state since I'm in California). Does that count as top two school teams, or top two for each event (so, suppose my school did poorly but one person won an event, would that person advance to nationals)?

Thanks in advance.

[andrewwski]

It's team based. Top one or two teams from each state (depending on the state and its size) go to nationals.

[Dark Sabre]

You can read about why they chose to do it that way here: http://soinc.org/allstar_teams

[fleet130]

I'm wondering how qualifying to Nationals works.

This is very basically how teams are chosen. Since each organization may establish their own procedures/requirements, there may be many exceptions.

The host institution and Science Olympiad National Executive Board determine how many teams can be accommodated at a national tournament. Each state is given one slot and, if any slots remain, one additional slot is given to states with the highest enrollment.

Each state has an organization which nominates team(s) to represent the state at the national tournament. How this is done is left up to each state. Without exception, it is currently by holding a state competition/tournament.

States that can't accommodate all their teams in a single tournament must devise a procedure for choosing who will participate in the the state tournament. This is done by dividing the state into regions. The state organization decides how many teams from each region may participate in the state tournament.

These regions select the teams to compete at the state tournament. Some states have independent regional organizations; while, in others the regions are managed by the state organization.

Note that California has chosen to divide their state into 2 regions and to send the top team from each region to the national tournament. This will work as long as they have sufficient enrollment to receive 2 invitations. If their enrollment should fall below that required for 2 invitations (not likely in the foreseeable future), they would have to decide how they would choose one team.

[eta150]

I was thinking that there should be 8-12 teams per state advancing to a national level regional tournament, with 6 regions in the nation. Each of these regions would be given a different number of spots (averaging 10 per division) that go to nationals based on that region's success at nationals the prior year. This would serve the purpose of ensuring that the best possible teams make nationals, because some of the better states would wind up with more teams at nationals. This is much more fair, because there are often teams that don't make nationals, but are better than many national level teams that do make it.
The regions would be NE, SE, NC, SC, NW, and SW.
The only problem would be the additional cost and the additional length of the season (although I personally don't see the season length as a problem).

[gyourkoshaven]

Actually there should be 7 regions. NE, SE, NC, SC, NW, SW, Ohio

You stated the problem with this though...It would cost a TON of money, and it would cram everyone's schedule (PA only has three weeks between states and nats to start with). And a lot of schools in the south are out the week after nats, so delaying is impossible.

[eta150]

Good call, but also, if there were these national-regionals, then national-nationals could be moved back. It would also be fantastic for all of the mid level teams that ordinarily wouldn't have a shot at making it past states, like the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th place teams.
This could also be done without an actual physical (national-regional) tournament. Every state would have standardized (but not PSSA-like) tests that could be graded on a region wide basis, and then each region would have a "results show" via video conference, skype, or online streaming to show who is progressing to nationals. This would solve the same problems without adding the problem of cost.
It could all go a step further and just have the top 60 teams from each division go to nationals, regardless of state. The only problem would be events like Wright Stuff, where the gyms must have a uniform height.

[fleet130]

then national-nationals could be moved back

Unfortunately, dates for the national tournament are driven by when the host institution has their break. Once the new quarter starts, there are no facilities available to host the events.

standardized (but not PSSA-like) tests that could be graded on a region wide basis, and then each region would have a "results show" via video conference, Skype, or online streaming to show who is progressing to nationals

This has been discussed ad infinitum. The first major hurdle would be to generate the "standardized" exercises. Science Olympiad's goal is to have "hands-on" exercises, rather than "pen & paper" tests. Not all regional/state tournament hosts have the same facilities, resources and skills, making the implementation of standardized exercises even more difficult. A third obstacle to be overcome is security of the exercises. Different institutions have different dates when they can host the tournament. This opens the door for teams to "critique" the exercise and pass the information on to others who haven't had their tournament.

This would solve the same problems without adding the problem of cost.

A results show "via video conference, Skype, or online streaming" would incur significant costs, both in money and manpower, to produce.

just have the top 60 teams from each division go to nationals, regardless of state

The problems mentioned above make implementation of standardized testing very unlikely. How would the “top 60 teams from each division be determined?

[wlsguy]

Good call, but also, if there were these national-regionals, then national-nationals could be moved back. It would also be fantastic for all of the mid level teams that ordinarily wouldn't have a shot at making it past states, like the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th place teams.
This could also be done without an actual physical (national-regional) tournament. Every state would have standardized (but not PSSA-like) tests that could be graded on a region wide basis, and then each region would have a "results show" via video conference, skype, or online streaming to show who is progressing to nationals. This would solve the same problems without adding the problem of cost.
It could all go a step further and just have the top 60 teams from each division go to nationals, regardless of state. The only problem would be events like Wright Stuff, where the gyms must have a uniform height.

At the moment, everything is limited by time, money, and a host of other physical limitations.
The National Tournement has evolved quite a bit over the last 25 years and will likely continue to do so in the future.

I'm sure that, if the number of schools participating in Science Olympaid keeps growing, some type of National-Regional would need to take place. This is something that everyone who currently participates in SO can push for when they become the next generation of coaches, mentors, and state directors.

Who knows, maybe other countries could get involved and it could be a real world event.
If it does go this way, it will not be by accident. It will take all of the SO alumni to remember how it helped them and do their part to help others.