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Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 2:25 pm
by olympiaddict
Glad to hear the clarification!
@JeremyGerber- it's not about claiming transfers you're not using. You
are using the heat in the lightbulb, that's what causes incandescent light emission. In the motor I agree- you're not using the heat from friction or on the wires. We all agree a motor is not e-t-m, it's e-m.
Also, neither is it about being greedy. Yes, the rules as I interpret them do give you "extra" transfers as you see it. But as I and others interpret the rules you can't get e-ems for a lightbulb- I'm trying to figure out what even counts.
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 2:31 pm
by olympiaddict
Also I believe the clarification should read "...as long as they comply with
3.m and safety requirements."
Rule 4.m doesn't exist
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 2:50 pm
by Cheese_Muffin_Man
Chalker, regarding the new clarification, are store brought items now allowed? For example, are we now allowed to use store brought solenoids (my confusion comes from the previous clarification regarding only homemade solenoids). Also, do you believe that, for the bonus task containers, it is possible to have three distinct containers, but connected in some way. Thus, you would be able to detach them, but their properties as containers would go away.
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 3:29 pm
by SWAnG
Regarding containers, I was wondering what denotes "similar". If a hole is in one container, does it have to be in the same place on all other three containers? Do they all have to have the same dimensions?
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 3:36 pm
by chalker
olympiaddict wrote:Also I believe the clarification should read "...as long as they comply with
3.m and safety requirements."
Rule 4.m doesn't exist
Good catch... working on getting that fixed. Thanks.
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 3:39 pm
by chalker
Cheese_Muffin_Man wrote:Chalker, regarding the new clarification, are store brought items now allowed? For example, are we now allowed to use store brought solenoids (my confusion comes from the previous clarification regarding only homemade solenoids).
I don't think the term 'All electric and electronic components' has any type of ambiguity in it....... and note the homemade solenoid wording was in the original rules, it wasn't something introduced in the previous clarification.
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 4:03 pm
by Flavorflav
PsiPhi wrote:Can someone please tell me how can light be used with a photo cell to do änything"if we cannot use electronic parts?
At a minimum, light would have to activate a photo cell (given)
If there is to be an äction"done by this, there would have to be at a minimum a small relay, due to the low current that a photo cell would provide.
If there is a relay to be used, there must be a diode to discharge the relay coil after it built up a charge!
If one small transistor could be used (which is a basic standard electronic method of doing this) this would be a no brainer but
to do anything with a photo cell without the use of äny"electronics at all seems to be not a possible task.
I have tried 10 photo cells in parallel to gain the most current possible, but I still could not even get the smallest relay to energize. (a 3ma relay)
This is extreamly frustrating as I have a working setup photocell / relay, but it took 1 transistor and 1 diode and one relay. (all electronic components)
There was one other test that I did...I used a small solar panel (again, an electronic device!) and in order to get the relay to energize i had to use a megasize
light (1 million cnadle power from my fathers boat light) That did energize the relay, but obviously a light like this is not going to work with a 10 volt battery
Thoughts appreciated
I've seen it done with two photocells and no diode, so it is possible.
ETA: rereading your comment, you seem to be talking about photovoltaic cells. Photocells are photoresistors. It can be done easily with photoresistors; I have no information about photovoltaic cells.
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 4:43 pm
by JeremyGerber
olympiaddict wrote:Glad to hear the clarification!
@JeremyGerber- it's not about claiming transfers you're not using. You
are using the heat in the lightbulb, that's what causes incandescent light emission. In the motor I agree- you're not using the heat from friction or on the wires. We all agree a motor is not e-t-m, it's e-m.
Also, neither is it about being greedy. Yes, the rules as I interpret them do give you "extra" transfers as you see it. But as I and others interpret the rules you can't get e-ems for a lightbulb- I'm trying to figure out what even counts.
As someone who has ran this event quite a bit and knows a lot of folks who have judged this event, I can tell you most judges are not going to give you thermal on a light bulb. I am well aware of that is how a light bulb works, however if you are not using heat as a means to do something else, you simply are not going to get it. I will say though given how vague the rules are this year, if there ever was a year to try to get it by it would be this one. Just have a plan B.
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 6th, 2014, 4:50 pm
by olympiaddict
thanks for the advice. given the new rule about electronics I've come up with some new ways to avoid issues with the Black Box controversy, but I still wonder how other teams will be judged.
Re: Mission Possible C
Posted: February 7th, 2014, 7:48 am
by jgensel
Can someone please explain to me what is considered a direct transfer?