Wright Stuff C

[lechassin]

Good luck with the “working with students” part of SO. I’m thinking you’re better in this than you let on.

Uh, no. Trust me. I can hardly stand my own kids .

[coachchuckaahs]

Brian, Thank you! Your post is exactly what we wanted. Combing your post and knowing what's in other posts gives us a real-world target.

One thing is clear: if you moved to another state, the trophies would soon follow. You and Chuck inspire your team in a way that I cannot, namely because I, er, uh, well, let's just say that I've never worried about being good with kids, and it looks like that just caught up with me... I look at your bio and I can see why you're good at this event. You're curious by nature, and seeing the kinds of jobs you've listed, you're good with people.

Worse, for whatever reason(s) Luke's school obviously views the build events as known losers; any time invested there is perceived as wasted, they prefer to concentrate on the book-ish stuff where tools aren't required. That's a huge hurdle, hopefully my 8th grader and his friends will have a better experience if Luke does well this year.

I think you hit on the key here. When I was asked to help out in 2016, our team attitude was that "anything can go wrong" in a build, and that these were luck events. We seldom won State, suffering badly in builds. My first WS team consisted of three girls, who, while "scientists", did not want to build. But, each team member was REQUIRED to do one build.

My approach, as an engineer, is that a properly engineered and TESTED build is a known, a given. The knowledge events can very easily have test items you failed to study, especially at regionals where the ES may not abide by the event description. But in builds, you KNOW how your system will perform. Yes, things can still go wrong, but not likely.

Other fathers stepped in with similar approaches, and now our build program is VERY strong. Last year our winning total at State was half of our perennial rival in second place, whereas prior year the difference was only 5 points.

Not to harp on it too much, but the key to build success is the log book, and build records. I had one of those original girls, who went into ocean biology, comment that WS was her favorite event because there were so many variables, but we could change ONE variable, and SEE the results in the log! Love of science, and seeing it in action. My current crop also happens to love aviation, and so branched out to F1D.

Builds are hard because kids don't build things these days, they are always on the computer. But done right, builds are fun and rewarding. Follow a systematic approach with good records, and let the kids discover the gems in the data!

Our team is proof that the dreaded builds can become a strength, if the attitude and approach is tailored.

Coach Chuck

[xiangyu]

Speaking of log books, I do have one question. It seems that every piece of rubber we use, even if they are from the same bag, varies. This causes frustration sometimes because once a rubber loop breaks, we almost have to start over as even if we don't change anything the flight is different from before. Does anyone have an approach that will counteract this variation?

Brian, thanks for giving me an idea of what's possible, I know I'll probably never get to that insane time, but it does encourage me to try new things and continue to experiment!

Xiangyu

[CrayolaCrayon]

Speaking of log books, I do have one question. It seems that every piece of rubber we use, even if they are from the same bag, varies. This causes frustration sometimes because once a rubber loop breaks, we almost have to start over as even if we don't change anything the flight is different from before. Does anyone have an approach that will counteract this variation?

Brian, thanks for giving me an idea of what's possible, I know I'll probably never get to that insane time, but it does encourage me to try new things and continue to experiment!

Xiangyu

Measuring by density is much better than measuring by thickness. Although rubber can sometimes have up to 10% density variation in any given part of the batch, going by the weight is much more consistent than... thickness... of something squishy.

[xiangyu]

Speaking of log books, I do have one question. It seems that every piece of rubber we use, even if they are from the same bag, varies. This causes frustration sometimes because once a rubber loop breaks, we almost have to start over as even if we don't change anything the flight is different from before. Does anyone have an approach that will counteract this variation?

Brian, thanks for giving me an idea of what's possible, I know I'll probably never get to that insane time, but it does encourage me to try new things and continue to experiment!

Xiangyu

Measuring by density is much better than measuring by thickness. Although rubber can sometimes have up to 10% density variation in any given part of the batch, going by the weight is much more consistent than... thickness... of something squishy.

Okay, I tried doing that but it seems that the problem is still there. I guess it could be how much the rubber has been used, like for example a rubber that has been wound up 3 times is different than rubber that has been wound up. And even then they seems to have a little variation because we won't have the exact distance/wind speed of winding it be the same every time.

Xiangyu

[coachchuckaahs]

Andrew is correct. The density is what matters.

You can carefully weigh the rubber (before tying and cutting), and carefully measure the length. Weight to the milligram (cheap scale on Amazon). Then calculate the g/in for that rubber.

However, this is only our rough indication. It is a bit sensitive. Then tie your rubber, with O-rings, trim, weight it again. Then carefully measure the loop length. We hold the knot down at 0, and then straighten and pull the other end with a ball point pen. Do not stretch, just get it straight, and look at the length.

If you are flying a class with limited rubber mass (some SO years, F1D, F1M), then length of the accurately massed rubber becomes the primary measurement for comparing different loops. For SO this year, there is not a max mass, so you may end up being a little less careful about mass. DON'T. This is another variable. Pick you mass, and compare length of same-mass loops.

Once you have wound the rubber, the length is different, so be sure to record the virgin length in your notes. We use a standard slip of paper in a snak ziploc bag. This paper identifies the rubber (perhaps a serial number you assign), the date it was tied, the source (date code on box of rubber), the virgin length, the unlubed mass, the g/in density, the break in torque at full pull and max torque, and the break-in winds at full pull and max. The winds and torque become a guideline, recognizing later winds will get more turns. On F1D we usually record the winds and torques for the 2nd or 3rd break-in wind, as the Tan II rubber we use there is more sensitive to aggressive first winds. The Super Sport we use here can be wound pretty hard even on the first wind.

Generally, rubber from the same batch with the same mass and loop length, has performed remarkably similar. Note that the performance will max out after 3-6 times of use (depending how hard it is wound), so you may want to track the number of uses on a piece as well. In addition, the SuperSport rubber is fairly consistent batch to batch.

Coach Chuck

PS: The VERY THIN rubber we are using this year is VERY SENSITIVE to thickness and width variations, which probably explains the variations you are seeing in the same bag rubber. I am assuming this is precut rubber.

[xiangyu]

Andrew is correct. The density is what matters.

You can carefully weigh the rubber (before tying and cutting), and carefully measure the length. Weight to the milligram (cheap scale on Amazon). Then calculate the g/in for that rubber.

However, this is only our rough indication. It is a bit sensitive. Then tie your rubber, with O-rings, trim, weight it again. Then carefully measure the loop length. We hold the knot down at 0, and then straighten and pull the other end with a ball point pen. Do not stretch, just get it straight, and look at the length.

If you are flying a class with limited rubber mass (some SO years, F1D, F1M), then length of the accurately massed rubber becomes the primary measurement for comparing different loops. For SO this year, there is not a max mass, so you may end up being a little less careful about mass. DON'T. This is another variable. Pick you mass, and compare length of same-mass loops.

Once you have wound the rubber, the length is different, so be sure to record the virgin length in your notes. We use a standard slip of paper in a snak ziploc bag. This paper identifies the rubber (perhaps a serial number you assign), the date it was tied, the source (date code on box of rubber), the virgin length, the unlubed mass, the g/in density, the break in torque at full pull and max torque, and the break-in winds at full pull and max. The winds and torque become a guideline, recognizing later winds will get more turns. On F1D we usually record the winds and torques for the 2nd or 3rd break-in wind, as the Tan II rubber we use there is more sensitive to aggressive first winds. The Super Sport we use here can be wound pretty hard even on the first wind.

Generally, rubber from the same batch with the same mass and loop length, has performed remarkably similar. Note that the performance will max out after 3-6 times of use (depending how hard it is wound), so you may want to track the number of uses on a piece as well. In addition, the SuperSport rubber is fairly consistent batch to batch.

Coach Chuck

PS: The VERY THIN rubber we are using this year is VERY SENSITIVE to thickness and width variations, which probably explains the variations you are seeing in the same bag rubber. I am assuming this is precut rubber.

Ok thanks. Yeah, it's pre cut from freedom flight

[lechassin]

Chuck, the amount of stuff there is to know about flying these things scares me.

So, Luke just called from the meet after finishing his official flights, and his performance was consistent with his all-in personality, in a logical way. He brought both of his planes, one thoroughly vetted that flies 1'35" both ways every time, and the other plane that he completed last night after work and never flew (you see where this is going).

He noted that some teams today had combined scores close to 4 minutes (wow!) and figured his vetted plane was destined to lose. He decided to try some trim flights on the new plane, was happy to have it fly 1'45" repeatedly both ways, and decided to use it for his official flights:

To the right, 1'45" right under the ceiling . A banner in the contest area concerned him so he added left rudder before his second flight (ARRRGH!).

To the left, 3/4 lap into the floor . We have experienced that in practice, so I think nerves got him *sigh*.

Anyhoo, we've got work to do. We'll use only flaring props moving forward and we need to flatten his circles, plus who knows what else that you guys aren't telling us .

I think he should stick to a fixed game plan regardless of what others are doing, and only incorporate what he sees into future plans, but he vigorously disagrees...

[xiangyu]

To the left, 3/4 lap into the floor . We have experienced that in practice, so I think nerves got him *sigh*.

AHH that's unfortunate. We actually experienced this too a couple weeks ago with our bi plane which I think was part of the reason why it wasn't climbing.

What state are you living in? Perhaps 1:45 + a little extra is still good enough for a medal?

Xiangyu

[coachchuckaahs]

Chuck, the amount of stuff there is to know about flying these things scares me.

So, Luke just called from the meet after finishing his official flights, and his performance was consistent with his all-in personality, in a logical way. He brought both of his planes, one thoroughly vetted that flies 1'35" both ways every time, and the other plane that he completed last night after work and never flew (you see where this is going).

He noted that some teams today had combined scores close to 4 minutes (wow!) and figured his vetted plane was destined to lose. He decided to try some trim flights on the new plane, was happy to have it fly 1'45" repeatedly both ways, and decided to use it for his official flights:

To the right, 1'45" right under the ceiling . A banner in the contest area concerned him so he added left rudder before his second flight (ARRRGH!).

To the left, 3/4 lap into the floor . We have experienced that in practice, so I think nerves got him *sigh*.

Anyhoo, we've got work to do. We'll use only flaring props moving forward and we need to flatten his circles, plus who knows what else that you guys aren't telling us .

I think he should stick to a fixed game plan regardless of what others are doing, and only incorporate what he sees into future plans, but he vigorously disagrees...

Unfortunately, I have seen this way too often. A decent flying team sees someone put up better times, and they go off script and crash and burn. Our arch rival, 2 seasons ago, only had to fly (heli) what they did in regionals to take second at State in heli. But, based on our good time, they pushed it and flew into the wall both flights. Took 9th in heli, lost overall by a mere 5 points! Had they followed script, they would have gone to Nationals! Remember, SO is not JUST a flying event. It is a TEAM event, and you must do well overall to move on.

Do the work ahead of time, with a log, and improve daily. Then make a script BASED ON THE LOG, and EXECUTE THE SCRIPT. There is not going to be magic in the contest that you have not found in the gym!

Yes, there is a lot to learn. My kids spend 50 hours or more in the gym (and they would spend more if it wasn't for school!). This is where they learn what works. Systematic improvement. Sometimes there is a chance finding that causes exploration in a new direction, but a new idea is thoroughly explored before contest day.

Hang in there. He is getting more fights than most. That is key, once a plane is flying well (and his is). Now review the log for trends, and extend in the areas that look promising.

Coach Chuck