Will/Did You Make It to Nationals?

[Luo]

what is the nationals selection process?
is it a fixed number from each state
or is it like
n teams nationwide

Here's how I understand it; correct me if I'm wrong:

There are 60 spots allotted for Division C and 60 spots allotted for Division B at nationals. Each state organization is entitled to one team at nationals. The remaining spots are filled by going down the list of team registration by state. No state may send more than two teams to nationals per division.

Example: 48 states have Division C Science Olympiad organizations. Each of these 48 states automatically receives one team at nationals. The remaining twelve spots are awarded to the top twelve states in terms of number of Division C teams registered.

Also note that states are given remarkable latitude in how they select teams for nationals. States aren't required per se to hold a state tournament, but all participating states currently do. California (perennially awarded two national teams per division) splits itself geographically, choosing to nominate one team per division from Northern California and one from Southern California. North Dakota (which has been awarded two Division C teams in recent years) chooses to award its second national spot to the top small school in the competition. Other states have other quirks in their tournament and nomination processes.

Lastly, one tiny correction to Chalker's post: DC ended up not sending a Division C team, so the next state in line, Minnesota, received a second Division C nationals spot.

[tornado guy]

Haha, Montana has already had their State competition if what I see is correct.

[Kokonilly]

Haha, Montana has already had their State competition if what I see is correct.

Yeah, they have it in the fall with the previous year's events, if I'm not mistaken.

[rfscoach]

Haha, Montana has already had their State competition if what I see is correct.

Yeah, they have it in the fall with the previous year's events, if I'm not mistaken.

They did Rocks & minerals, Keep the Heat, Fermi, extra, so they used this years events/rules. They just only work on events for 3 months instead of 7-9 months like that rest of us...

[tuftedtitmouse12]

And that is quite unusual, considering I adore SO. But the people in my school not take it seriously, not in the slightest.

The exact same dilemma with about half of our team. I mean, there's no chance whatsoever at our team going to nats, there's Mary Murphy and Daniel Wright, and maybe South, to compete for the two div B teams going to nats. And with this year, our strongest members being 9th graders and most people not taking it seriously, and then there's the 6th graders who are willing to work but just don't have the past experience, I'm ashamed to say that our team is in shambles. Hopefully, we'll be able to pull through at get to state. (That's the farthest I'll be hoping our team can get). But good luck to all those who have a chance!

[salcedam]

And that is quite unusual, considering I adore SO. But the people in my school not take it seriously, not in the slightest.

The exact same dilemma with about half of our team. I mean, there's no chance whatsoever at our team going to nats, there's Mary Murphy and Daniel Wright, and maybe South, to compete for the two div B teams going to nats. And with this year, our strongest members being 9th graders and most people not taking it seriously, and then there's the 6th graders who are willing to work but just don't have the past experience, I'm ashamed to say that our team is in shambles. Hopefully, we'll be able to pull through at get to state. (That's the farthest I'll be hoping our team can get). But good luck to all those who have a chance!

You can't be completely pessimistic about your chances. Marie Murphy and Daniel Wright may be strong teams, but that doesn't mean that you should entirely give up on trying to beat them. In terms of my team making it to Nationals, I sincerely hope so. The pressure is on for us to make Nationals because our head coach for the past 25 years is retiring this year and we want to make her last year a memorable one. Our goal last year was to make top 5 at Nationals, but we fell short by one place. Hopefully this year we can make it to Nationals and end with a bang! We just had our first invitational today and it's lookin' pretty good for the rest of the year. I'm excited.

[tornado guy]

The exact same dilemma with about half of our team. I mean, there's no chance whatsoever at our team going to nats, there's Mary Murphy and Daniel Wright, and maybe South, to compete for the two div B teams going to nats. And with this year, our strongest members being 9th graders and most people not taking it seriously, and then there's the 6th graders who are willing to work but just don't have the past experience, I'm ashamed to say that our team is in shambles. Hopefully, we'll be able to pull through at get to state. (That's the farthest I'll be hoping our team can get). But good luck to all those who have a chance!

We made it to nats one year with over half our team as 6th graders. So it's always possible!

[zyzzyva980]

I was thinking about the national selection process today on the bus ride, because what else are going to think about on a 9-hour bus ride (besides watching all of the Lord of the Rings movies and two Star Wars movies)?

I am in no way complaining about the current system, nor should any of you. It works great, really.

How's this for a hypothetical:
The national berths are divided like so:

• Last year's national champion (1)
• Each state champion (We'll say 42, because some states don't compete and I like that number) (42+1=43)
• Through some statistical analysis, etc etc something, NSO decides on the invitational tournaments that are most competitive (i.e. strength of participating teams) and awards a national berth to the winner of each of those invitational tournaments. (43+17=60) If you've, say, won an invite that qualifies to nationals and then you win state, then the state runner-up would go, and so on.

The advantages of the system would be the fact that it's likely the strongest and most deserving teams would get to go nationals, as we have many strong invites. The disadvantage is we might have a disproportionate number of teams from certain states, which would fluctuate from year to year. If a state has a lot of teams but none of them wins an qualifier, then just one team will get to go.

I think this would be an interesting format (again, purely hypothetical). If you win nationals, do you not work as hard the next year knowing that you'll be qualified already? Will teams study harder, earlier in the year, knowing that their opportunity to qualify may come earlier as well? Would teams be more inclined to travel further to invitationals, or not split their teams? I think it would have interesting impacts. Thoughts?

[Paradox21]

I was thinking about the national selection process today on the bus ride, because what else are going to think about on a 9-hour bus ride (besides watching all of the Lord of the Rings movies and two Star Wars movies)?

I am in no way complaining about the current system, nor should any of you. It works great, really.

How's this for a hypothetical:
The national berths are divided like so:

• Last year's national champion (1)
• Each state champion (We'll say 42, because some states don't compete and I like that number) (42+1=43)
• Through some statistical analysis, etc etc something, NSO decides on the invitational tournaments that are most competitive (i.e. strength of participating teams) and awards a national berth to the winner of each of those invitational tournaments. (43+17=60) If you've, say, won an invite that qualifies to nationals and then you win state, then the state runner-up would go, and so on.

The advantages of the system would be the fact that it's likely the strongest and most deserving teams would get to go nationals, as we have many strong invites. The disadvantage is we might have a disproportionate number of teams from certain states, which would fluctuate from year to year. If a state has a lot of teams but none of them wins an qualifier, then just one team will get to go.

I think this would be an interesting format (again, purely hypothetical). If you win nationals, do you not work as hard the next year knowing that you'll be qualified already? Will teams study harder, earlier in the year, knowing that their opportunity to qualify may come earlier as well? Would teams be more inclined to travel further to invitationals, or not split their teams? I think it would have interesting impacts. Thoughts?

I don't think this system would work at all. This would mean that the selected invitationals wouldn't be about getting new people used to SO or starting work on SO. These invitationals would very quickly lose their invitational identity, but instead would be seen as the early national qualification opportunites. Many teams would approach it very seriously. If a team knew that they had qualified for nationals in December, they would have no incentive to do well at regionals or state later in the year. They wouldn't even need to show up. They wouldn't bring their best building devices to state, because the competition would have much less meaning and they wouldn't want to risk having their brilliant ideas leaked.

[winneratlife]

I don't think this system would work at all. This would mean that the selected invitationals wouldn't be about getting new people used to SO or starting work on SO. These invitationals would very quickly lose their invitational identity, but instead would be seen as the early national qualification opportunites. Many teams would approach it very seriously. If a team knew that they had qualified for nationals in December, they would have no incentive to do well at regionals or state later in the year. They wouldn't even need to show up. They wouldn't bring their best building devices to state, because the competition would have much less meaning and they wouldn't want to risk having their brilliant ideas leaked.

This, I've always seen invitationals as a way to measure your team's progress, give younger members a chance to develop when they won't get to compete at regionals or state, and pick your A team for sure.

I think this would be an interesting format (again, purely hypothetical). If you win nationals, do you not work as hard the next year knowing that you'll be qualified already? Will teams study harder, earlier in the year, knowing that their opportunity to qualify may come earlier as well? Would teams be more inclined to travel further to invitationals, or not split their teams? I think it would have interesting impacts. Thoughts?

Well, for one thing, I think splitting teams is a good thing, as it allows the younger members to get some experience working with the vets, which is always nice.

Also, consider this:

Let's say Solon attends no invitationals, and Grand Haven wins a national qualifier. In addition, Mentor places second at said invitational, while Troy High places second at MI states. Who decides whether it's Mentor or Troy High that gets to attend nats?