Interpretation of 3e

[Cow481]

OK, I see said the blind man. If I understand you. you would like the 20 to read 20.000 and the rest would be OK???

Simply removing the "more than" part would leave nothing ambiguous at all. Although it's unlikely for anyone familiar with SO to interpret it incorrectly except by purposeful effort, as written it may be ambiguous to someone new to SO who doesn't think about it.

As I read the rules, it is acceptable for an ES to bring a boomilever support with the CDL drawn 25cm below the j-hook, and use it for both B and C divisions. (25cm is both more than 15cm and more than 20cm...). This would give an advantage to anyone familiar with the ES in question and his "generous" apparatus. A reasonable ES will not so this. Not all ES are reasonable.

A rule fix would be to remove the words "more than" and make the distances 15.0cm and 20.0cm, requiring the CDL to be marked on the apparatus to the nearest mm. This is what appears on the diagrams on the website.

Exactly, it never specified how far the contact depth line is from the loading hook.

[bernard]

Simply removing the "more than" part would leave nothing ambiguous at all. Although it's unlikely for anyone familiar with SO to interpret it incorrectly except by purposeful effort, as written it may be ambiguous to someone new to SO who doesn't think about it.

As I read the rules, it is acceptable for an ES to bring a boomilever support with the CDL drawn 25cm below the j-hook, and use it for both B and C divisions. (25cm is both more than 15cm and more than 20cm...). This would give an advantage to anyone familiar with the ES in question and his "generous" apparatus. A reasonable ES will not so this. Not all ES are reasonable.

A rule fix would be to remove the words "more than" and make the distances 15.0cm and 20.0cm, requiring the CDL to be marked on the apparatus to the nearest mm. This is what appears on the diagrams on the website.

Exactly, it never specified how far the contact depth line is from the loading hook.

Another reading of rule 3.e. has "more than 20 cm (Div. B) or 15 cm (Div. C) below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook" describing the portion of the "testing wall below the Contact Depth Line." This reading seems more consistent with the posted diagrams and the spirit of the event.

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

[dholdgreve]

Ok... Well... THAT didn't work... I sent in the request for clarification, and received this back, which really doesn't address the issue identified... I guess we will just need to hope there are no unscrupulous E/Cs out there anywhere:
As written, it would be the E/C's discretion to use any dimension greater than the one stated (15 cm for C, 20 cm for B) and be fully compliant, allowing for B booms to be used in C competitions, if the line were drawn at 20 cm...

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
What is the intent of "Which is more than 20 cm ..." Why not just state 20 cm (Div B) or 15 cm (Div C). ? if margin of error is deemed appropriate, add +/-
.1 cm.
As written, If a Div B apparatus were used to test Div C Booms, and a boom built to Div B specs were entered in the competition, technically it should be allowed by today's rules.

Boomilever - Div B

(section: 3 / part: e / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: 1 / line: 1)
=========================================================
No, this means Div. B Booms can go no lower than the Div. B Contact Depth Line which is 20 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook and Div. C Booms can go no lower than the Div. C Contact Depth Line which is 15 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook.

[Unome]

Ok... Well... THAT didn't work... I sent in the request for clarification, and received this back, which really doesn't address the issue identified... I guess we will just need to hope there are no unscrupulous E/Cs out there anywhere:
As written, it would be the E/C's discretion to use any dimension greater than the one stated (15 cm for C, 20 cm for B) and be fully compliant, allowing for B booms to be used in C competitions, if the line were drawn at 20 cm...

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
What is the intent of "Which is more than 20 cm ..." Why not just state 20 cm (Div B) or 15 cm (Div C). ? if margin of error is deemed appropriate, add +/-
.1 cm.
As written, If a Div B apparatus were used to test Div C Booms, and a boom built to Div B specs were entered in the competition, technically it should be allowed by today's rules.

Boomilever - Div B

(section: 3 / part: e / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: 1 / line: 1)
=========================================================
No, this means Div. B Booms can go no lower than the Div. B Contact Depth Line which is 20 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook and Div. C Booms can go no lower than the Div. C Contact Depth Line which is 15 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook.

I would say this adequately clarifies the issue in the manner we were expecting.

[dholdgreve]

Ok... Well... THAT didn't work... I sent in the request for clarification, and received this back, which really doesn't address the issue identified... I guess we will just need to hope there are no unscrupulous E/Cs out there anywhere:
As written, it would be the E/C's discretion to use any dimension greater than the one stated (15 cm for C, 20 cm for B) and be fully compliant, allowing for B booms to be used in C competitions, if the line were drawn at 20 cm...

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
What is the intent of "Which is more than 20 cm ..." Why not just state 20 cm (Div B) or 15 cm (Div C). ? if margin of error is deemed appropriate, add +/-
.1 cm.
As written, If a Div B apparatus were used to test Div C Booms, and a boom built to Div B specs were entered in the competition, technically it should be allowed by today's rules.

Boomilever - Div B

(section: 3 / part: e / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: 1 / line: 1)
=========================================================
No, this means Div. B Booms can go no lower than the Div. B Contact Depth Line which is 20 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook and Div. C Booms can go no lower than the Div. C Contact Depth Line which is 15 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook.

I would say this adequately clarifies the issue in the manner we were expecting.

I guess I don't feel that way... First of all, no clarification has been posted on the National FAQ page. Secondly, they have identified what they feel the initial intent was without clarifying the wording.

[Unome]

Ok... Well... THAT didn't work... I sent in the request for clarification, and received this back, which really doesn't address the issue identified... I guess we will just need to hope there are no unscrupulous E/Cs out there anywhere:
As written, it would be the E/C's discretion to use any dimension greater than the one stated (15 cm for C, 20 cm for B) and be fully compliant, allowing for B booms to be used in C competitions, if the line were drawn at 20 cm...

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
What is the intent of "Which is more than 20 cm ..." Why not just state 20 cm (Div B) or 15 cm (Div C). ? if margin of error is deemed appropriate, add +/-
.1 cm.
As written, If a Div B apparatus were used to test Div C Booms, and a boom built to Div B specs were entered in the competition, technically it should be allowed by today's rules.

Boomilever - Div B

(section: 3 / part: e / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: 1 / line: 1)
=========================================================
No, this means Div. B Booms can go no lower than the Div. B Contact Depth Line which is 20 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook and Div. C Booms can go no lower than the Div. C Contact Depth Line which is 15 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook.

I would say this adequately clarifies the issue in the manner we were expecting.

I guess I don't feel that way... First of all, no clarification has been posted on the National FAQ page. Secondly, they have identified what they feel the initial intent was without clarifying the wording.

That's true, it definitely should be posted.

[goodcheer]

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
What is the intent of "Which is more than 20 cm ..." Why not just state 20 cm (Div B) or 15 cm (Div C). ? if margin of error is deemed appropriate, add +/-
.1 cm.
As written, If a Div B apparatus were used to test Div C Booms, and a boom built to Div B specs were entered in the competition, technically it should be allowed by today's rules.

Boomilever - Div B

(section: 3 / part: e / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: 1 / line: 1)
=========================================================
No, this means Div. B Booms can go no lower than the Div. B Contact Depth Line which is 20 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook and Div. C Booms can go no lower than the Div. C Contact Depth Line which is 15 cm below the center of the hole for the Mounting Hook.

Thanks for posting this. This is what we thought it meant also although the wording was horrible (officially clarified now). In my opinion, the words "more than" probably were not meant to mean the Contact Depth Line would be more than 20 cm (B) or 15 cm (C). They probably meant to say as explained in the answer given above, the boomilever could not touch the testing wall more than (or lower than) 20 cm (B) or 15 cm (C) below the hook. It seems it was a simple case of misplaced modifier.