Mousetrap Vehicle C

[masterhat]

part of the problem is that when the car decelerates, the string winds a little more onto the rod. You can compensate for this by putting in less turns for the way back.

[kenjarius]

Just had my regionals a few days ago and the event supervisor screwed me over with his interpretation of the rules.
Section 6. Part c.
"A Lane Bonus of -20 points is awarded to any vehicle whose fixed point remains inside the tape defining the 1.50 meter line between the starting line and the 8 meter line while traveling in both directions."

According to him, this means that the lane bonus is only awarded if the point on the vehicle remains inside the rectangle created by the 1.5 meter lane, the starting line, and the 8 meter line. So my vehicle ends up with a final distance of 3 cm behind the starting point and he says that I did not earn the lane bonus because the pointer is behind the starting line even though my vehicle had remained in the "lane" during the entire run except for when it slightly overshot the starting line on the way back.
Is this the correct interpretation of the rules? I asked for a clarification from soinc but they have yet to reply. I'm worried about this since the supervisor at my regionals is most likely running the event at state also.

[fleet130]

Is this the correct interpretation of the rules?

That's what the language in the rules says, but I don't think that's what was intended. If someone has a preconceived notion of intent, the rule can be interpreted either way depending on what they think was intended!

I asked for a clarification from soinc but they have yet to reply.

You only need a clarification from soinc for the national tournament. What's more important is to ask the supervisor of the tournament you will compete in. This serves 2 purposes: First it gets you an answer, and second it makes the event supervisor aware there is an issue. Without notifying the event supervisor at your competition, a clarification from soinc may causes problems, especially if the event supervisor has already answered the question differently for other teams.

I'm worried about this since the supervisor at my regionals is most likely running the event at state also.

Once someone has made an interpretation, it may be difficult to change their mind. Ask the question as soon as possible to give the event supervisor time to think about it. If they have already published an answer, it may not be possible to change it now.

[Balsa Man]

I'm worried about this since the supervisor at my regionals is most likely running the event at state also.

What State,if you don't mind me asking? There's been some discussion floating around Colorado after southern Regionals...

Thanks

[packer-backer91]

Just had my regionals a few days ago and the event supervisor screwed me over with his interpretation of the rules.
Section 6. Part c.
"A Lane Bonus of -20 points is awarded to any vehicle whose fixed point remains inside the tape defining the 1.50 meter line between the starting line and the 8 meter line while traveling in both directions."

According to him, this means that the lane bonus is only awarded if the point on the vehicle remains inside the rectangle created by the 1.5 meter lane, the starting line, and the 8 meter line. So my vehicle ends up with a final distance of 3 cm behind the starting point and he says that I did not earn the lane bonus because the pointer is behind the starting line even though my vehicle had remained in the "lane" during the entire run except for when it slightly overshot the starting line on the way back.
Is this the correct interpretation of the rules? I asked for a clarification from soinc but they have yet to reply. I'm worried about this since the supervisor at my regionals is most likely running the event at state also.

this is a good point the way the rule's say it that may be the correct interpretation [says nothing extending backward]. I remember with the wheeled vehicle that you could not go over the line, so this may be what the mean in the rule that overshooting is a bad thing to them. Make sure you post what they say, It may be a while it took over 2 weeks for one of my clarifications to be answered. I just sent another and that's been a week with no response yet, they take a long time sometimes to get back with a response.

[fleet130]

I remember with the wheeled vehicle that you could not go over the line

Wheeled Vehicle had a similar problem when it first came out. The rules stated the lane bonus was earned if the vehicle didn't go outside of the lane during its run. Many interpreted crossing the finish line as "going outside of the lane". The intent was that the bonus would be awarded if the vehicle didn't violate the side boundaries. In subsequent years, the language in the rules was changed to make it clearer that crossing the finish line did not invalidate the lane bonus.

NOTE!In reality, there are no side boundaries before the starting line or after the finish line, making it impossible for a vehicle to violate them before the start or after the finish. Many event supervisors chose to lay down side lines the full length of the track so they wouldn't give away the target distance before the competition began. When it was time to start the competition, all they needed do was lay down a finish (or start) line to establish the chosen distance. To save time, they sometimes left the extended lines in place. These extended lines were not defined in the rules and therefore did not establish boundaries.

The "finish bonus" was originally based on a series of concentric circles whose centers coincided with the center of the finish line (it actually started as a 30cm square). Points earned were determined by which circle the "marked" point came to rest in, regardless of which side of the finish line it was on. As teams found better solutions, the circles were changed to semi-circles located on the "start" side of the finish line. Points were earned only if the marked point came to rest within one of the semi-circles. Still later, the finish bonus was given only to vehicles whose marked point did not cross the finish line (even if it returned to the start side of the line).

Based solely on the language in the current rules, I would say the event supervisor interpreted them correctly. Based on knowledge from past experience, I don't think it's what was intended. Since event supervisors may have different interpretations, only they can give a definitive answer for their tournament. Ask them!

[smarticle13]

What is the goal of this division c event?

[fleet130]

Depends on who you are. Competitors, teams, coaches, teachers, parents, event supervisors, tournament organizers, state directors, national directors all have different goals. This can also vary from individual to individual. The goal of most competitors is most likely to do the best possible in the event. The rules spell out what it takes.

[packer-backer91]

well to continue to talk about the rule in question I had my regional’s Saturday and the judges scored it as the -20 bonus is only obtained if the pointer remained in front of the starting line. We only got one run, its a long story why I did not get have another score, our vehicle was very close to the starting line thus we got the bonus. I herd the judge explain how he scored it and they way he said the bonus made it clear that was how he thought the rule meant too [were if you over run the starting line on the way back you do not receive the bonus]. To me anyway I'm from now on I will practice to stop always before the line to get the bonus just to be sure.

Also I never really noticed this in the rules but have any other judges pause the time there the vehicle is not moving [the transition from forward to backward]? This dead time was not counted in our time. I don't know how the judges got that time like they did, my coach kept a time too and his was a full 3 seconds slower than what the judges had. Our vehicle stops and reverses almost instantaneously [maybe .25sec]. This worked well to our advantage because what I thought I seen was them stop the time when it stopped at the 7m line then restart it when it started to come back, thus by factoring human reaction time could be up to a total of .50sec or more of time that was not added to our score. During testing we never stopped the time until all motion has stopped. To be honest we where the first team to go and I think that they were surprised to see it go backward [my regional is not very strong in build it events] further aiding to our score. I was very happy that the score they gave us was the best that this vehicle had ever received even with mousetraps that needed to be replaced [a full 3seconds higher than new]. How has anyone else interpreted the timing of the run as?

[winneratlife]

well to continue to talk about the rule in question I had my regional’s Saturday and the judges scored it as the -20 bonus is only obtained if the pointer remained in front of the starting line. We only got one run, its a long story why I did not get have another score, our vehicle was very close to the starting line thus we got the bonus. I herd the judge explain how he scored it and they way he said the bonus made it clear that was how he thought the rule meant too [were if you over run the starting line on the way back you do not receive the bonus]. To me anyway I'm from now on I will practice to stop always before the line to get the bonus just to be sure.

Also I never really noticed this in the rules but have any other judges pause the time there the vehicle is not moving [the transition from forward to backward]? This dead time was not counted in our time. I don't know how the judges got that time like they did, my coach kept a time too and his was a full 3 seconds slower than what the judges had. Our vehicle stops and reverses almost instantaneously [maybe .25sec]. This worked well to our advantage because what I thought I seen was them stop the time when it stopped at the 7m line then restart it when it started to come back, thus by factoring human reaction time could be up to a total of .50sec or more of time that was not added to our score. During testing we never stopped the time until all motion has stopped. To be honest we where the first team to go and I think that they were surprised to see it go backward [my regional is not very strong in build it events] further aiding to our score. I was very happy that the score they gave us was the best that this vehicle had ever received even with mousetraps that needed to be replaced [a full 3seconds higher than new]. How has anyone else interpreted the timing of the run as?

I believe that somewhere in the rules, it is mentioned that if the vehicle stops for over 3 sec. only 3 sec. is added to the time. (i.e. if the vehicle stops for 10 seconds, timewise, 7 seconds are subtracted from the actual time between there and back)