Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

[NinjaChicken]

This is a two-part event if I'm not mistaken.. even if you guys are concerned about the apparati being the same, the teams will still have a test to take on Thermodynamics.

[Flavorflav]

I know anything you say here has no official standing, but can on of you chalkers enlighten me about the ice water? 4.a.v says that "teams may add up to 100 mL of water from an ice bath to their beakers," plural. Am I correct in assuming that they are supposed to add the same amount to each beaker? If so, do they score the total volume of water added to both beakers?

And I think you win the prize for finding the first error in the rules. Wow, only took about 2 days;) Our intention was for it to only be the internal beaker*. Looks like I'll have to push for a clarification to be posted.

*Standard disclaimer: this is not an official clarification, so don't treat it as such. Go to soinc.org for such things;)

Aha. That was actually what I had assumed at first, until I noticed that the word was plural. I agree that this probably merits a clarification.

[JSGandora]

EDIT: Never mind, I can't seem to delete this post.

[Schrodingerscat]

I am rather concerned with how accurately I will be able to rebuild the device every time. Unless testing the device will be easier than I am expecting, I am not sure if I will have time to retest it it must be reassembled after every invite and tournament. I might have to be sure to make a design that can replicated with precision so the accuracy of my temperature predictions is not severely affected. Although, I am not even sure whether to read the rules that it should be expected to be disassembled every time or not.

[chalker]

I am rather concerned with how accurately I will be able to rebuild the device every time. Unless testing the device will be easier than I am expecting, I am not sure if I will have time to retest it it must be reassembled after every invite and tournament. I might have to be sure to make a design that can replicated with precision so the accuracy of my temperature predictions is not severely affected. Although, I am not even sure whether to read the rules that it should be expected to be disassembled every time or not.

We are leaving the dis-assembly up to the event supervisors, but they don't have to require it. I'd go in expecting it every time if I were you.

[Kordo]

If running this event would it be acceptable to use cold water at the outset? It seems that this would be easier to assure that all initial temperatures are the same by just pouring iced water (no cubes in the sample of course) into the containers. Just a thought to making the event easier to run.

[chalker7]

If running this event would it be acceptable to use cold water at the outset? It seems that this would be easier to assure that all initial temperatures are the same by just pouring iced water (no cubes in the sample of course) into the containers. Just a thought to making the event easier to run.

No, the rules are quite particular about the temperature range and how the event is supposed to be run to make it fair for all competitors.

[chalker]

If running this event would it be acceptable to use cold water at the outset? It seems that this would be easier to assure that all initial temperatures are the same by just pouring iced water (no cubes in the sample of course) into the containers. Just a thought to making the event easier to run.

No, the rules are quite particular about the temperature range and how the event is supposed to be run to make it fair for all competitors.

To expand a bit on what my brother said, we did discuss using cold water instead of hot water during the drafting of the rules. In fact there is a pilot event called Keep the Cold that does just that. For a variety of reasons we decided to utilize hot water, including:

-It gave us an easier ability to have a variation in starting temperature. Sure ice water is always exactly 0 degree C, but if you want to allow for a range of possible starting temps (i.e. +/- 15 degrees C) it's rather hard to easily do that with 'cold' water. However hot water baths are a rather common lab item that can provide for a range of temps.

-Ice water is 0 degrees C, Room temp is ~25 degrees C, (meaning you only have a dynamic competition range of 25 degrees) whereas a hot water bath in the 60-90 degrees range gives you a dynamic competition range of 35-65 degrees.

-For the bonus in Div. C, you'd still have to have 'hot' water to add to a cold starting beaker.

[Flavorflav]

Another question for the Chalkers: 4.a.i states that the amount of water to be used will vary between 50 and 150 mL, and 4.a.iv says that "each team ... must have the set amount of water poured into their 2 beakers." Now, when I first read that I assumed it meant 50-150 mL in EACH beaker, but now that I read it again it seems like it is saying that the amount will be split between the two beakers, half in each. I was right the first time, though, wasn't I? You meant 50-150 mL in each?

[chalker7]

Another question for the Chalkers: 4.a.i states that the amount of water to be used will vary between 50 and 150 mL, and 4.a.iv says that "each team ... must have the set amount of water poured into their 2 beakers." Now, when I first read that I assumed it meant 50-150 mL in EACH beaker, but now that I read it again it seems like it is saying that the amount will be split between the two beakers, half in each. I was right the first time, though, wasn't I? You meant 50-150 mL in each?

I would submit an official clarification (for reasons beyond this being an unofficial forum). I know what was intended (50-150 in each), but the wording is such that you could misinterpret it and should be officially clarified.