Not necessarily -- teams would just put the same diagram in their notes. There were many instances where I had the same/very similar diagrams as the ones on my notes when I did DP last year. So I don't think replacing binders with notesheets would make a big difference.JoeyC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:45 pm Furthermore, diagrams - most questions involving labeling diagrams use existing diagrams and blur out the labels (e.g. the Wilson cycle, Combustion Engine, etc.).
While changing up diagrams could be done easily to deter some teams from just having the same diagram on their notes, it'll be a lot harder to do that if teams have access to a much greater amount of diagrams.
Binder Events
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Re: Binder Events
West Windsor-Plainsboro High School South '21
2021 Nationals: Astronomy - 1st, Geologic Mapping - 1st, Team - 6th
2021 Nationals: Astronomy - 1st, Geologic Mapping - 1st, Team - 6th
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Re: Binder Events
I don't think the knowledge that competitors are now allowed binder will significantly change the tests at any competition. That being said, I think that binders are a good/bad thing depending on the quality of the test. In poorly written tests, especially with copied questions (although for the most part, I don't think most people bother putting keys in their binder although I could be wrong), binders would probably make things even worse. However, in high-quality tests that require a deep conceptual understanding to do well, a binder would probably be beneficial.
South Woods MS, Syosset HS '21
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
1st place MIT Codebusters 2019-2020 1st place NYS Fermi Questions (2019), Astronomy and Codebusters (2021) Science Olympiad Founder's Scholarship winner
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Re: Binder Events
At Mira Loma Invitational Div B DP, I took the last page of the answer sheet and filled it in without looking at the question because I noticed the outline of a very overused glacial landscape diagram. Every event has diagrams that are overused to death, hopefully this discourages those types of questions.pb5754[] wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:53 pmNot necessarily -- teams would just put the same diagram in their notes. There were many instances where I had the same/very similar diagrams as the ones on my notes when I did DP last year. So I don't think replacing binders with notesheets would make a big difference.JoeyC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:45 pm Furthermore, diagrams - most questions involving labeling diagrams use existing diagrams and blur out the labels (e.g. the Wilson cycle, Combustion Engine, etc.).
While changing up diagrams could be done easily to deter some teams from just having the same diagram on their notes, it'll be a lot harder to do that if teams have access to a much greater amount of diagrams.
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Troy SciOly 2021 Co-Captain
Proud Padre of the Evola SciOly Program 2018-now
Dank Memes Area Homeschool Juggernaut 2018-now
Sierra Vista SciOly Co-Head Coach 2020-now
Umaroth's Userpage
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Re: Binder Events
So, after doing only binder events (2 of which don't demand binders for a specific purpose such as ID) for the season, here's my current analysis:
Pros:
You don't have to worry about what you put in there, content-wise
Things are easier to read when not in super small font
They can be easier for proctors to regulate (though look at con number 4)
Cons:
Binder notes are expensive to print (especially if you're using color)
Binder notes are heavy - at Brown I had to bring my notes and laptop, a ~25 pound total (a fifth of my body weight).
Binder notes reward finding a ton of obscure data that wouldn't be as heavily rewarded in note sheet events due to the unavailability of space
Rules regarding what you can put into a binder so long as it is "secure" aren't clear - if you've seen my questions about my DP textbook, you'll understand
In summary: binders make it easier for competitors to not have to worry about fitting diagrams, charts, and other such information on their notes. However, they're costly and bulky, can confuse proctors, and more reward endlessly browsing the web for obscure pieces of data than regular sheet notes.
What do you all think of this evaluation?
Pros:
You don't have to worry about what you put in there, content-wise
Things are easier to read when not in super small font
They can be easier for proctors to regulate (though look at con number 4)
Cons:
Binder notes are expensive to print (especially if you're using color)
Binder notes are heavy - at Brown I had to bring my notes and laptop, a ~25 pound total (a fifth of my body weight).
Binder notes reward finding a ton of obscure data that wouldn't be as heavily rewarded in note sheet events due to the unavailability of space
Rules regarding what you can put into a binder so long as it is "secure" aren't clear - if you've seen my questions about my DP textbook, you'll understand
In summary: binders make it easier for competitors to not have to worry about fitting diagrams, charts, and other such information on their notes. However, they're costly and bulky, can confuse proctors, and more reward endlessly browsing the web for obscure pieces of data than regular sheet notes.
What do you all think of this evaluation?
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Re: Binder Events
I'd mostly agree. Also I'd like to point out most of the cons are resolved by using a laptop (as in astro). Whether or not replacing more binder events with laptop is a good idea idk.
Also just my personal opinion but a binder should not be heavily depended on. You should be able to answer the majority of questions without your binder. My astro binder is semi non existent, and I've found much more personal success in fossils by lowkey double cheat sheeting it with an occasional reference to the binder.
That being said it kinda depends on events. I've dipped into orni a bit and I don't see any way you're not completely reliant on your binder for bird info.
I wouldn't call this a con. With both binder events and cheat sheet events, having a core understanding is essential to doing well. Past that, binder events encourage more deeper research then cheat sheet events.
Also just my personal opinion but a binder should not be heavily depended on. You should be able to answer the majority of questions without your binder. My astro binder is semi non existent, and I've found much more personal success in fossils by lowkey double cheat sheeting it with an occasional reference to the binder.
That being said it kinda depends on events. I've dipped into orni a bit and I don't see any way you're not completely reliant on your binder for bird info.
South Woods MS, Syosset HS '21
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
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Re: Binder Events
100% true
West Windsor-Plainsboro High School South '21
2021 Nationals: Astronomy - 1st, Geologic Mapping - 1st, Team - 6th
2021 Nationals: Astronomy - 1st, Geologic Mapping - 1st, Team - 6th
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Re: Binder Events
It's mainly a con in that if a super-random question is asked (for example, subsets of data about a certain type of phytoplankton from a certain year) if a team has that, they get the point. If they don't , they can't really do much about it - especially given that you can do extensive research (have all of the Oceanography category of Wikipedia in your notes) but still get miffed because your note making process didn't cover that exact source.
More or less, its a con because now unreasonably obscure questions now have a greater ability to randomly decide competitions due to the fact that you can do in deep research and never encounter it. (I just encountered vibracoring in the Polytechnic DP test when taking it as a practice. It's so vague that there are only ~2 articles on it on google that are meant for public consumption, and it didn't even show in either of my 2 reference textbooks. But if a team randomly had it, like I randomly have all the Oscillatory systems of the world as well as a couple of random dipole eddies and other such random phenomena, I'd lose that point - it rewards more plain random data than actually researching deep into topics such as the mechanisms of ENSO - an important subdivision of Oceanography).
Also, this is mainly in evaluation of events that don't need binders (not id events like ornith).
More or less, its a con because now unreasonably obscure questions now have a greater ability to randomly decide competitions due to the fact that you can do in deep research and never encounter it. (I just encountered vibracoring in the Polytechnic DP test when taking it as a practice. It's so vague that there are only ~2 articles on it on google that are meant for public consumption, and it didn't even show in either of my 2 reference textbooks. But if a team randomly had it, like I randomly have all the Oscillatory systems of the world as well as a couple of random dipole eddies and other such random phenomena, I'd lose that point - it rewards more plain random data than actually researching deep into topics such as the mechanisms of ENSO - an important subdivision of Oceanography).
Also, this is mainly in evaluation of events that don't need binders (not id events like ornith).
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Re: Binder Events
eh test writers can always ask super random things regardless of binder event or not- I don't think they really take into consideration what resources you have that much while writingJoeyC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:20 pm It's mainly a con in that if a super-random question is asked (for example, subsets of data about a certain type of phytoplankton from a certain year) if a team has that, they get the point. If they don't , they can't really do much about it - especially given that you can do extensive research (have all of the Oceanography category of Wikipedia in your notes) but still get miffed because your note making process didn't cover that exact source.
More or less, its a con because now unreasonably obscure questions now have a greater ability to randomly decide competitions due to the fact that you can do in deep research and never encounter it. (I just encountered vibracoring in the Polytechnic DP test when taking it as a practice. It's so vague that there are only ~2 articles on it on google that are meant for public consumption, and it didn't even show in either of my 2 reference textbooks. But if a team randomly had it, like I randomly have all the Oscillatory systems of the world as well as a couple of random dipole eddies and other such random phenomena, I'd lose that point - it rewards more plain random data than actually researching deep into topics such as the mechanisms of ENSO - an important subdivision of Oceanography).
Also, this is mainly in evaluation of events that don't need binders (not id events like ornith).
South Woods MS, Syosset HS '21
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
1st place MIT Codebusters 2019-2020 1st place NYS Fermi Questions (2019), Astronomy and Codebusters (2021) Science Olympiad Founder's Scholarship winner
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Re: Binder Events
I think JoeyC's point is that the random question will essentially not exist because with the constraint of a cheatsheet, no team will have the random data and will all get it wrong. However, with a binder, it is essentially shove as much stuff in as you can hoping you get lucky and the test writer covers that random topic and not a different one. Meanwhile, I am being sad in Orni even though I love the topic having never done a binder event before.Name wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:40 pmeh test writers can always ask super random things regardless of binder event or not- I don't think they really take into consideration what resources you have that much while writingJoeyC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:20 pm It's mainly a con in that if a super-random question is asked (for example, subsets of data about a certain type of phytoplankton from a certain year) if a team has that, they get the point. If they don't , they can't really do much about it - especially given that you can do extensive research (have all of the Oceanography category of Wikipedia in your notes) but still get miffed because your note making process didn't cover that exact source.
More or less, its a con because now unreasonably obscure questions now have a greater ability to randomly decide competitions due to the fact that you can do in deep research and never encounter it. (I just encountered vibracoring in the Polytechnic DP test when taking it as a practice. It's so vague that there are only ~2 articles on it on google that are meant for public consumption, and it didn't even show in either of my 2 reference textbooks. But if a team randomly had it, like I randomly have all the Oscillatory systems of the world as well as a couple of random dipole eddies and other such random phenomena, I'd lose that point - it rewards more plain random data than actually researching deep into topics such as the mechanisms of ENSO - an important subdivision of Oceanography).
Also, this is mainly in evaluation of events that don't need binders (not id events like ornith).
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Former Events: Ecology, Water Quality, Green Gen, Ornithology, Forestry, Disease Detectives, Forensics, Chem Lab, Env Chem, Sounds, Dynamic Planet, Crime Busters, Potions & Poisons, Exp Design, Towers, Mystery Arch, Reach for the Stars, Mission Possible
Captain 2021-2023
Former Events: Ecology, Water Quality, Green Gen, Ornithology, Forestry, Disease Detectives, Forensics, Chem Lab, Env Chem, Sounds, Dynamic Planet, Crime Busters, Potions & Poisons, Exp Design, Towers, Mystery Arch, Reach for the Stars, Mission Possible
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Re: Binder Events
still doesn't prevent some teams from randomly knowing it or guessing it correctlySilverBreeze wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:43 pmI think JoeyC's point is that the random question will essentially not exist because with the constraint of a cheatsheet, no team will have the random data and will all get it wrong. However, with a binder, it is essentially shove as much stuff in as you can hoping you get lucky and the test writer covers that random topic and not a different one. Meanwhile, I am being sad in Orni even though I love the topic having never done a binder event before.Name wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:40 pmeh test writers can always ask super random things regardless of binder event or not- I don't think they really take into consideration what resources you have that much while writingJoeyC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:20 pm It's mainly a con in that if a super-random question is asked (for example, subsets of data about a certain type of phytoplankton from a certain year) if a team has that, they get the point. If they don't , they can't really do much about it - especially given that you can do extensive research (have all of the Oceanography category of Wikipedia in your notes) but still get miffed because your note making process didn't cover that exact source.
More or less, its a con because now unreasonably obscure questions now have a greater ability to randomly decide competitions due to the fact that you can do in deep research and never encounter it. (I just encountered vibracoring in the Polytechnic DP test when taking it as a practice. It's so vague that there are only ~2 articles on it on google that are meant for public consumption, and it didn't even show in either of my 2 reference textbooks. But if a team randomly had it, like I randomly have all the Oscillatory systems of the world as well as a couple of random dipole eddies and other such random phenomena, I'd lose that point - it rewards more plain random data than actually researching deep into topics such as the mechanisms of ENSO - an important subdivision of Oceanography).
Also, this is mainly in evaluation of events that don't need binders (not id events like ornith).
South Woods MS, Syosset HS '21
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
1st place MIT Codebusters 2019-2020 1st place NYS Fermi Questions (2019), Astronomy and Codebusters (2021) Science Olympiad Founder's Scholarship winner