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thsom wrote:Chalker, or anybody for that matter. Do we have to put our school name and team number on the tower itself or is it ok to only put it on the transportation box we use?

As usual, this is not the site for clarifications, even if national event supervisors are willing to help students. If the rule as written isn't clear to you, you really need to submit a clarification on the national site.

As a general piece of advice, it isn't wise to challenge the rules too closely unless you find a large advantage or possible 'loophole' (we actually leave loopholes in the rules!). Example, a tower that is too wide by 0.1 mm isn't really much stronger than one that is undersize by 0.1 mm, but the first will get you second tiered. And one that's 'exactly' right by your measurements might get second tiered by an event supervisors measuring equipment, is the advantage worth it?

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

okay, but i do have a question. why is the loading block 5*5 cm? Shouldn't it technically by about 5.6*5.6cm because that is about the size for a square to fit in a 8cm diameter circle (actually smaller). So couldn't someone go and build a 5.6*5.6 cm chimney and then it couldn't be loaded by the block (Being too small) but it is still legal in size and fits in the 8cm diameter circle. I just fell that it should be a 5.6*5.6 cm loading block.

thsom wrote:Chalker, or anybody for that matter. Do we have to put our school name and team number on the tower itself or is it ok to only put it on the transportation box we use?

There isn't anything explicitly in the rules about labeling things. It's really going to be up to the individual event supervisor, but I've never seen one require the tower itself to be labeled. Often they'll have it sit on a labeled piece of paper, or sometimes (rarely) I've seen then ask the team to stick a name-tag type label to one side of the tower.

thsom wrote:okay, but i do have a question. why is the loading block 5*5 cm? Shouldn't it technically by about 5.6*5.6cm because that is about the size for a square to fit in a 8cm diameter circle (actually smaller). So couldn't someone go and build a 5.6*5.6 cm chimney and then it couldn't be loaded by the block (Being too small) but it is still legal in size and fits in the 8cm diameter circle. I just fell that it should be a 5.6*5.6 cm loading block.

It's that size because of historically that's the size we've always used. The 'circle' test was a relatively new addition to the rules in recent years, and the loading block specs go way way way back to the earliest days.

chalker wrote:

thsom wrote:okay, but i do have a question. why is the loading block 5*5 cm? Shouldn't it technically by about 5.6*5.6cm because that is about the size for a square to fit in a 8cm diameter circle (actually smaller). So couldn't someone go and build a 5.6*5.6 cm chimney and then it couldn't be loaded by the block (Being too small) but it is still legal in size and fits in the 8cm diameter circle. I just fell that it should be a 5.6*5.6 cm loading block.

It's that size because of historically that's the size we've always used. The 'circle' test was a relatively new addition to the rules in recent years, and the loading block specs go way way way back to the earliest days.

But then wouldn't teams be forced to keep it at 5 cm and why would you have to worry about the circle test? Or was that to make sure that the restriction came at 15 or 30 cm and it narrowed to 5.6 cm or less and then again to 5 cm at the top.

thsom wrote:

chalker wrote:

thsom wrote:okay, but i do have a question. why is the loading block 5*5 cm? Shouldn't it technically by about 5.6*5.6cm because that is about the size for a square to fit in a 8cm diameter circle (actually smaller). So couldn't someone go and build a 5.6*5.6 cm chimney and then it couldn't be loaded by the block (Being too small) but it is still legal in size and fits in the 8cm diameter circle. I just fell that it should be a 5.6*5.6 cm loading block.

It's that size because of historically that's the size we've always used. The 'circle' test was a relatively new addition to the rules in recent years, and the loading block specs go way way way back to the earliest days.

But then wouldn't teams be forced to keep it at 5 cm and why would you have to worry about the circle test? Or was that to make sure that the restriction came at 15 or 30 cm and it narrowed to 5.6 cm or less and then again to 5 cm at the top.

We don't write the rules, dearest. Just follow the rules and don't try looking through a pinhole. Even if it does fit inside the rules, does it comply with the rest of the rules? If so, you're good. If not, just redesign it. Just...don't look for tiny contradictions in the rules. Not a good thing to do.

foreverphysics wrote:We don't write the rules, dearest. Just follow the rules and don't try looking through a pinhole. Even if it does fit inside the rules, does it comply with the rest of the rules? If so, you're good. If not, just redesign it. Just...don't look for tiny contradictions in the rules. Not a good thing to do.

Lol, i guess i did get carried a way. I was taught to thoroughly interpret rules and question everything to understand it better for studying events. I guess i tried to apply that here when it really isn't applicable.

thsom wrote:

foreverphysics wrote:We don't write the rules, dearest. Just follow the rules and don't try looking through a pinhole. Even if it does fit inside the rules, does it comply with the rest of the rules? If so, you're good. If not, just redesign it. Just...don't look for tiny contradictions in the rules. Not a good thing to do.

Lol, i guess i did get carried a way. I was taught to thoroughly interpret rules and question everything to understand it better for studying events. I guess i tried to apply that here when it really isn't applicable.

Welll, some of us do write rules. Sooo...

I'd say you are only a very little carried away at worst. You DO need to fully understand the rules in these events as much as any other to develop the best device you can against the rules and avoid being DQ'd or second tiered.

But, the actual values in these tech events are often arbitrary and capricious. Sometimes via history (the 5 cm loading block vs an 8 cm hole), sometimes out of convenience (minimum weight on Wright Stuff and Helicopters to keep times reasonable), sometimes to make students think (the 8 cm diameter hole for towers), and sometimes purely arbitrary (like how HIGH that hole is for towers).

So yeah, do fully understand the rules. Feel free to question. Just don't always expect a 'logical' answer.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

Are 4 sided structures really that big of a weight difference with 3 sided ones?

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