Designs

[blakinator8]

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, but I am still confused about the requirement of scored vs unscored golf balls and their necessity in ETS eligibility.

As an update to this question, the following line was just added to one of those clarifications:

"No, objects other than the scoring golf balls may not be inside the scoring jugs. The inside of the scoring jug may not contain any objects, excluding scoring golf balls, throughout the duration of the run. Only allowed golf balls may be in the jug whether they receive 2 points or do not receive 2 points."

[sjwon3789]

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, but I am still confused about the requirement of scored vs unscored golf balls and their necessity in ETS eligibility.

As an update to this question, the following line was just added to one of those clarifications:

"No, objects other than the scoring golf balls may not be inside the scoring jugs. The inside of the scoring jug may not contain any objects, excluding scoring golf balls, throughout the duration of the run. Only allowed golf balls may be in the jug whether they receive 2 points or do not receive 2 points."

That last sentence includes "do not receive 2 points." Wouldn't that mean it doesn't matter whether the golf ball is being lifted or not, since it'll still be considered as scoring golf balls? Is that what you're implying? Aka, we can technically not lift anything right?

Again, it's so ambiguous but with some interpretation, it keeps pointing towards that direction. I don't really wanna risk it until there's a clear answer...

[bernard]

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, but I am still confused about the requirement of scored vs unscored golf balls and their necessity in ETS eligibility.

As an update to this question, the following line was just added to one of those clarifications:

"No, objects other than the scoring golf balls may not be inside the scoring jugs. The inside of the scoring jug may not contain any objects, excluding scoring golf balls, throughout the duration of the run. Only allowed golf balls may be in the jug whether they receive 2 points or do not receive 2 points."

That last sentence includes "do not receive 2 points." Wouldn't that mean it doesn't matter whether the golf ball is being lifted or not, since it'll still be considered as scoring golf balls? Is that what you're implying? Aka, we can technically not lift anything right?

Again, it's so ambiguous but with some interpretation, it keeps pointing towards that direction. I don't really wanna risk it until there's a clear answer...

Here's a link to that FAQ. There were some deletions of the word "scoring" so non-scoring golf balls may be in the scoring jug(s).

[goodcheer]

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, but I am still confused about the requirement of scored vs unscored golf balls and their necessity in ETS eligibility.

I concur with what you say about the contradictions and ambiguity involved in the FAQs this year. I just got another doozy of an answer to a question I submitted some time ago. Try to figure this one out and I quote:

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Does the device have to lift at least one golf ball and collect it into a
scoring jug?
Mission Possible
(section: 4 / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: / line: 1)

No, a team could conceivably only have one golf ball that acts as both a
first and last golf ball. Otherwise, to receive points for any transfers,
yes, teams must lift and collect golf balls.

The original question is included for your records; there is no need to
respond unless you feel there is an error.

[wlmeng11]

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, but I am still confused about the requirement of scored vs unscored golf balls and their necessity in ETS eligibility.

I concur with what you say about the contradictions and ambiguity involved in the FAQs this year. I just got another doozy of an answer to a question I submitted some time ago. Try to figure this one out and I quote:

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Does the device have to lift at least one golf ball and collect it into a
scoring jug?
Mission Possible
(section: 4 / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: / line: 1)

No, a team could conceivably only have one golf ball that acts as both a
first and last golf ball. Otherwise, to receive points for any transfers,
yes, teams must lift and collect golf balls.

The original question is included for your records; there is no need to
respond unless you feel there is an error.

hmm well even if we do have to lift golf balls, it doesnt say we have to lift golf balls from below the bottom of the jug such that the balls are eligible to be scorable, so even with this FAQ you could conceivably lift each ball an inch before dropping them into the jug and still be eligible for scoring each ETS

[XJcwolfyX]

Very sloppy work I must say. This is the kind of stuff that ruins Science Olympiad. We want a definitive answer on whether or not you have to lift golf balls to get points for the ETSs and this committee cannot provide that answer. Instead, we get the ambiguous answers they submit that constantly contradict themselves. It's been about a month and there is still no clear answer. Instead, clarifications about fuses, rocket igniters, and other less significant ones are being answered. While I'm grateful for goodcheer posting the answer he received, it still does not solve the problem and also is unreliable because it was not publicly posted. In the meantime, many people are unable to continue with the building of their device due to the lack of clarity provided. I don't see a reason why this question is unable to receive an answer. It would be very unfortunate and not in the spirit of Science Olympiad to get tiered or lose all of those points based off a technicality that was never cleared up, and in my opinion an answer is urgent.

[bernard]

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, but I am still confused about the requirement of scored vs unscored golf balls and their necessity in ETS eligibility.

I concur with what you say about the contradictions and ambiguity involved in the FAQs this year. I just got another doozy of an answer to a question I submitted some time ago. Try to figure this one out and I quote:

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Does the device have to lift at least one golf ball and collect it into a
scoring jug?
Mission Possible
(section: 4 / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: / line: 1)

No, a team could conceivably only have one golf ball that acts as both a
first and last golf ball. Otherwise, to receive points for any transfers,
yes, teams must lift and collect golf balls.

The original question is included for your records; there is no need to
respond unless you feel there is an error.

If I'm understanding this FAQ correctly, it seems to contradict this FAQ which says the following:

Do the initiating and final golf balls have to be eligible for scoring in order for an ETS to be eligible for scoring? Initiating and final referring to the golf ball starting the ETS and the golf ball released at the end of the transfer. (section: 4 / paragraph: b / line: 1)
No. Neither the initiating nor the final golf balls need to be scoreable balls in order for an ETS to be eligible for scoring.

Am I correctly understanding the FAQ goodcheer posted?

[goodcheer]

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, but I am still confused about the requirement of scored vs unscored golf balls and their necessity in ETS eligibility.

I concur with what you say about the contradictions and ambiguity involved in the FAQs this year. I just got another doozy of an answer to a question I submitted some time ago. Try to figure this one out and I quote:

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Does the device have to lift at least one golf ball and collect it into a
scoring jug?
Mission Possible
(section: 4 / paragraph: 1 / sub-paragraph: / line: 1)

No, a team could conceivably only have one golf ball that acts as both a
first and last golf ball. Otherwise, to receive points for any transfers,
yes, teams must lift and collect golf balls.

The original question is included for your records; there is no need to
respond unless you feel there is an error.

If I'm understanding this FAQ correctly, it seems to contradict this FAQ which says the following:

Do the initiating and final golf balls have to be eligible for scoring in order for an ETS to be eligible for scoring? Initiating and final referring to the golf ball starting the ETS and the golf ball released at the end of the transfer. (section: 4 / paragraph: b / line: 1)
No. Neither the initiating nor the final golf balls need to be scoreable balls in order for an ETS to be eligible for scoring.

Am I correctly understanding the FAQ goodcheer posted?

Yes, it is my opinion that is a contradiction. The second part of the answer contradicts another FAQ as you mention, although this is probably the real intent of the rule book. But, the first part of the answer I received contradicts the plain reading of the rule book. The rule plainly says, "The Device Task is to raise one or more golf balls..." Please, I hope no one says this is nit picking at the rules. The way we humans communicate is by words. Words should mean the same thing to everyone. "One or more" means at least one. I asked this simple question because it should be the easiest one to understand and to show that problems exist between the FAQs and the rule book. I admit the rules for MP seemed difficult this year, but the attempts to relax them with the FAQs have created confusion. It is like a thread has been pulled out that causes the whole garment to unravel. The lifting and collecting of golf balls is a common thread throughout the rules.

[goodcheer]

hmm well even if we do have to lift golf balls, it doesnt say we have to lift golf balls from below the bottom of the jug such that the balls are eligible to be scorable, so even with this FAQ you could conceivably lift each ball an inch before dropping them into the jug and still be eligible for scoring each ETS

This illustrates how contradictory the FAQs are. The rules plainly say, "Points are scored by lifting golf balls from a point below the bottom of the lowest scoring plastic beverage jug(s) and dropping them into a scoring jug(s)." We are told this applies only to the 2 points each golf ball receives. But, the theme of golf balls and scoring jugs carry over into the rules for ETS points. Changing the golf ball requirements for an ETS effects the entire event. If the rule book was written at the beginning according to the way the FAQs have been answered, you are correct, no one would attempt the lifting of golf balls even 1 cm. More room is available for ETS points; 50 versus 2 points is not hard to pick. This is supposed to be a high school event, but sadly has become much easier.

[XJcwolfyX]

I don't see why they cannot just clarify this. What's holding them back?