Scioly.org

Thanks, wls, I'll try and find that. Yes I have found laser pointers but the problem has been that last part, getting one that says warning and not danger and is class 1, 2, or 3a...

*edit* wowowowowow. i just read the scio page about lasers again and am more confused. am i allowed to use a laser if it says danger? i have been dismissing all danger laser pointers because i thought it HAD to say warning...

Although it may not be clear from the quotes below, "exposure" is referring to the laser beam striking someone's eyes.

(actual label may vary)

Class 1, 2 & some Class 3a lasers are labeled with a "Caution" and the possibility for injury is minimal. They can be allowed without question provided contestants avoid indiscriminate exposure to other contestants, judges or spectators. Careless/indiscriminate use may be grounds for disqualification.

Lasers with a "Caution" label may be used any time, anywhere. The only restriction is that you must prevent anyone from being exposed to the beam. If accidental exposure happens, you can be penalized.

(actual label may vary)
Some Class 3a & all Class 3b lasers are labeled with a "Warning" and there is a definite, though small, possibility for eye injury. These are allowed if they are mounted in a fixed position on a stationary device.

They may not be used on mobile devices such as robots and vehicles. Contestants must take fail-safe precautions to eliminate the possibility of accidental exposure to the eyes of judges, spectators, contestants and other people in the room. Shielding must be provided to insure the laser beam cannot exit the boundaries of the device. Accidental eye exposure is proof that proper precautions have not been taken and the team must be disqualified if it occurs.

These are the requirements if the laser has a "Warnimg" label.

1. They may not be used on mobile devices.
2. They are mounted in a fixed position on a stationary device.
3. Must take fail-safe precautions to eliminate the possibility of accidental exposure.
4. Shielding must be provided to insure the laser beam cannot exit the boundaries of the device.

Number 1 is fairly clear. If the device moves by it's self, you can't use the laser. This could apply (and probably would) to something like the arm of the catapult.
Number 2 further clarifies number 1 and pretty much eliminates mounting this type of laser on a catapult arm. (Note, I'm not saying that's a good idea!)
Number 3 means "cannot fail". If you have the shield (required in #4) removed, it must not be possible for the laser to operate. Another way of putting it is that the laser must automatically turn off when any of the shields are removed.
Number 4 should also be fairly clear. Your device must have shielding that will prevent the laser beam from exiting the boundaries of the device. This eliminates the possibility of using this type of laser for a sighting device!

Note that ALL 4 requirements must be met at ALL times!

Having said all that, there's no guarantee that the judges at any given tournament will know the laser policy/guidelines exists or how they might interpret them. As always, the only way to be sure is to ask the judges for your tournament for their interpretation. Don't count on their accepting any ruling you may have from another authority (even Nationals).

So.......technically we aren't allowed to use any lasers with the "warning" sign in trajectory (because the laser leaves the device)?

And technically we HAVE to use one that says caution?

I say technically because of the judge's interpretation of the rules, to be safe we would have to use caution, yes?

Technically, you don't HAVE to use any laser. But that's just me, and you already know my position on the subject. I'm not going to go through all my arguments again, because it's clear I'm losing this battle. But for those of you who think you can't win without lasers, we've taken first in state two years in a row without using any sight, laser, etc.- just the naked eye.

It just doesn't make sense to have absolutely no sighting device. It is the best way to eliminate any left to right movement. Why would you use the naked eye when a laser or rifle scope would work so much better? I think without an alignment device you could never calibrate your device perfectly because you would have minute variability on your distance front to back because your distance left to right would be changing.

Without any sight we got a 0 at our first tournament. We didn't attempt a bucket shot, so that must mean that we nailed both targets right on, I'll say once again, without a sight. I'm not saying sights aren't helpful, I'm sure they are. I'm just saying it isn't absolutely necessary to have one.

No one is denying that.....

zyzzyva98 wrote:Without any sight we got a 0 at our first tournament. We didn't attempt a bucket shot, so that must mean that we nailed both targets right on, I'll say once again, without a sight. I'm not saying sights aren't helpful, I'm sure they are. I'm just saying it isn't absolutely necessary to have one.

It depends how accurately the judges were measuring. Once all the top teams begin to get "0", it can come down to the millimeters. At regionals for instance last year, a "0" was just hitting a large pin in the center, which was actually a fairly large "0", whereas im sure at nationals they count .5 cm away as different from exactly on.

Most of the targets we have seen do not have actual pins. They generally use crossed string or rubber bands (from wright stuff). This allows the balls to create the impact crater and allow measurement to the center. If this wasn't done, too many teams would have zero scores.

I also think this is why they have the "new" bucket shot. It is an attempt to try to avoid the tie breakers that occurred in some locations last year.

I would expect Nats to be decided by the bucket shot..

Well... if you want the truth, we deserved to get at least a 20, by my own measurements. Plus, it wasn't the best run tournament. But through lots of practice, and accurate measurements after the first shot, you can get a 0, or even less than that, without a sight or laser. It's not impossible. And I'm done with this discussion.