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Ack, SumoBots? Great, another "heavy-build" event we know nothing about. And how can you actually test your Bot unless you compete... I'm with AustinRHL...I would think the scheduling and scoring for SB would be a nightmare. Hey, everyone does think Mission Possible will be back next year, right?

I like Electrical Vehicle, I still miss it.

AustinRHL wrote:The apparent addition of Sumo Bots perplexes me. For one thing, it isn't going to be a particularly fair event; since it's one-on-one, you might have one of the best robots but be pitted against the eventual winner in the first round, so you won't get the medal that you deserve. But the more pressing issue in my mind is the scheduling: how on earth can you predict when you're going to be occupied with the Sumo Bot, so that you can know what other events you can do? I also think that Protein Modeling is a stupid way to replace Cell Biology, although it could be worse. In my opinion, assuming that they bring back Sounds of Music, they should have half of the score be based on a test, much as Physics Lab and It's About Time currently are.

It is one-on-one, however it is also double elimination, so that does play in to the rankings. You may play the eventual winner in the first round, but you will then have the chance to play another bot - you need to lose twice before you are out.

I don't understand your second point with regards to scheduling. If SumoBots is at a certain time and you have a conflict, it's no different than a conflict between any two other events.

I'm all in favor of SumoBots - it's a fun event for both competitors and spectators. While the challenge seems daunting at first, it's not that difficult if you put the time in to it. You test your bot on it's own - it's up to you to make it work as best as it can. The objective is not to complete some task against your own standards as most other events are, but to compete against somebody else - may the best bot win.

I've seen SumoBots for 4 years now, would have been the supervisor for a tournament this year if I didn't have a conflict, and I believe it would make a good event. The scheduling and scoring isn't that difficult (in my region, anyway, Sumo is held after the conclusion of the other events while they are being graded/scored). My only complaint is that some of the rules need refining - the way New York's were written, some of them were a bit vague. Of course, I was less than impressed with the supervisor, and their spotty enforcement and interpretation of some rules but complete neglect of others. That is not a problem with the event itself, but the people running it, and I've seen such in other events as well.

On another note, I really would like to see Circuit Lab or a variation back in as a C event. I've always thought that SO is very lacking of events that have to do with electricity and electronics. While some of it may be more engineering than pure science, there are quite a few SO events that are as such, and I think we all agree that engineering or applied science is a vital part of SO. Even in terms of pure science, very few electrical concepts are covered by SO events.

Just my two cents, anyway.

maggymay wrote:Ack, SumoBots? Great, another "heavy-build" event we know nothing about. And how can you actually test your Bot unless you compete... I'm with AustinRHL...I would think the scheduling and scoring for SB would be a nightmare. Hey, everyone does think Mission Possible will be back next year, right?

I like Electrical Vehicle, I still miss it.

I do think that MP will be back next year and hopefully much much much more difficult than it was this year.

I for one am glad that electric vehicle is gone. Teams were just doing too well with it and getting incredible scores that you couldn't really improve on after a certain point.

andrewwski wrote:It is one-on-one, however it is also double elimination, so that does play in to the rankings. You may play the eventual winner in the first round, but you will then have the chance to play another bot - you need to lose twice before you are out.

I don't understand your second point with regards to scheduling. If SumoBots is at a certain time and you have a conflict, it's no different than a conflict between any two other events.

Yeah, I thought that it might be double elimination, which is certainly far better than single elimination. However, losing once makes your advancing to the finals very tenuous, since one mistake or random occurrence would then knock you out. Ideally, the first loss should account for those moments, so that you have some cushion for errors. But I still think that the one-on-one concept just isn't appropriate for Science Olympiad; having to take into consideration what your opponents are doing and will do is a big difference from completing a test or a challenge on your own.

I do see your point concerning scheduling. However, even though state coordinators should set up a bracket and assign placings in it for each team, that inevitably won't happen in many cases, in my opinion. Teams in many states will arrive at the competition with no idea of when they're supposed to compete, and the team's schedule will then have to be assembled on the spot. Furthermore, you will have no idea how far you will advance or when you will end up in the one-loss bracket - and therefore no idea which events will conflict - so you would likely have to play it safe and have Sumo Bots competitors stick to only that event, even if they end up losing quickly and actually being free for other events.

One other thing that I want to mention is that Environmental Science would be a fantastic event if it focused on atmospheric science, like climate change and atmospheric chemistry, and I would replace Circuit Lab or Food Science (or Remote Sensing, if it seemed more appropriate as an Earth Science event) with it in a heartbeat. But soil chemistry just isn't useful or interesting enough for it to merit consideration as an event to include.

Sumo Bots has been run at all 6 competitions I've been to, and it really is a great event, from my perspective at least. Our Regionals and Invitationals are small enough so that all teams can compete after all other events, while they are being scored, which means there are no conflicts with other events and it is great to watch where previously we would have just been waiting around. At states, I'm not entirely sure precisely how it is done, but the hour you sign up for is the only one you will have to compete in, and so there isn't a "one loss slot" you may have to compete in. Several bouts take place in the hour, and then the top bots from each hour compete at 3:00. Except the occasional event sup that doesn't read the rules, as with all events, it is run excellently and a great event. As well, it has something for everyone- the head on competition may get some people interested in SO that would otherwise let their science interests wither away and those with extensive robotics experience can really run with it and make something very nice. The one-on-one competition may be different than other SO events, but that doesn't mean to me that it doesn't belong in SO. With double-elimination, places may be shifted slightly off of what they "deserve", but that comes with almost every building event. I can fly my plane a consistent three minutes, but if I don't perform well for my two official flights, I'll lose. I can build twenty bridges that get a 2000 efficiency, but if I'm sloppy on my last one, it won't do well. Sumo Bots is similar. It really is a great event, and I think it deserves official event status.

I really love Elevated Bridge. It poses some unique challenges that can't easily be researched to find an answer, forcing you to really understand the engineering. I hope they throw in some fun twist with towers next year. I would love Wright Stuff in C next year, so that I may continue with it. Helicopters seems really annoying, since the prop is the part of WS I hate most, and this is just prop. I hope they go with Gliders, but they'll likely go with Helicopters, which I guess will have to do. I'd also like to see Circuit Lab, since then I could continue my work with Shock Value.

About the flight events, I just think that not having wright stuff in either division would be a huge mistake, as it is always one of the most exciting and competitive events. Gliders is a far second, as it would at least have some of the grace of the powered planes, but it would be missing the aspect of powered flight. Helicopters would have the powered flight, but it's much less exciting, and lower performance.

So, KEEP WRIGHT STUFF!!!

eta150 wrote:About the flight events, I just think that not having wright stuff in either division would be a huge mistake, as it is always one of the most exciting and competitive events. Gliders is a far second, as it would at least have some of the grace of the powered planes, but it would be missing the aspect of powered flight. Helicopters would have the powered flight, but it's much less exciting, and lower performance.

So, KEEP WRIGHT STUFF!!!

So true, helicopter is just so boring to watch (at least in WS, it goes in circles, and now that i think about how high some of them may go, youd need to hold it in a REALLY high ceiling building...our crappy 53 second one hit the ceiling (well rafters really) of the Armory in the UIUC at the state tournament....and its huge in there.

WS should come to C div...my friend and i would love to compete in that. He won state in the 8th grade last year and it was really interesting how much goes into designing a plane...i wish i had done it.

As for glider, its more original...if WS is replaced, I personally think glider would be the better choice. Its a lot different than powered flights like WS and heli

blue cobra wrote:Sumo Bots has been run at all 6 competitions I've been to, and it really is a great event, from my perspective at least. Our Regionals and Invitationals are small enough so that all teams can compete after all other events, while they are being scored, which means there are no conflicts with other events and it is great to watch where previously we would have just been waiting around. At states, I'm not entirely sure precisely how it is done, but the hour you sign up for is the only one you will have to compete in, and so there isn't a "one loss slot" you may have to compete in. Several bouts take place in the hour, and then the top bots from each hour compete at 3:00. Except the occasional event sup that doesn't read the rules, as with all events, it is run excellently and a great event. As well, it has something for everyone- the head on competition may get some people interested in SO that would otherwise let their science interests wither away and those with extensive robotics experience can really run with it and make something very nice. The one-on-one competition may be different than other SO events, but that doesn't mean to me that it doesn't belong in SO. With double-elimination, places may be shifted slightly off of what they "deserve", but that comes with almost every building event. I can fly my plane a consistent three minutes, but if I don't perform well for my two official flights, I'll lose. I can build twenty bridges that get a 2000 efficiency, but if I'm sloppy on my last one, it won't do well. Sumo Bots is similar. It really is a great event, and I think it deserves official event status.

I really love Elevated Bridge. It poses some unique challenges that can't easily be researched to find an answer, forcing you to really understand the engineering. I hope they throw in some fun twist with towers next year. I would love Wright Stuff in C next year, so that I may continue with it. Helicopters seems really annoying, since the prop is the part of WS I hate most, and this is just prop. I hope they go with Gliders, but they'll likely go with Helicopters, which I guess will have to do. I'd also like to see Circuit Lab, since then I could continue my work with Shock Value.

You hit the whole point of sumo bots head on...it really is a great event, and the very thought of 1v1 competition would draw in so many people who aren't normally interested in science. I REALLY hope its made an event next year, i have some really interesting designs and the thing with this event is, its all about creativity. You don't necessarily have to push the other bot out to win...

Just make an uber light bot and touch the other bot every now and then to make sure you dont get penalized for the "if bots don't make contact after 45 seconds, the clock is stopped and the bots are placed closer together" rule...then after two minutes, time is called and the lighter bot is the winner. Of course this is risky in that the other bot may be lighter than you...my point is, there are tons of different ideas that could make for great designs. Theres not really a correct path to go in this event, unlike some build its such as Wright stuff. Not that WS is a bad event, i love it

lllazar wrote:So true, helicopter is just so boring to watch

I don't think how fun an event is to watch should have any effect on whether it is chosen. The majority of the events aren't viewable anyway. Physics Lab was super boring to watch, but I found it to be a fun challenge this year. Helicopters could be a good event because it would be a new challenge to build a helicopter instead of building another plane like it has been for the past few years.

All I want to know is either Experimental Design, Ecology, or Trajectory rotating. This is serious. These are the best events ever.