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Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 18th, 2016, 7:22 pm
by windu34
patil215 wrote:So the rules state "All energy storage devices must be contained in the Device, power supply, or controller(s)."
Does this mean it would be illegal to use a power supply that plugs into a standard wall socket? I have a fairly nice, constant voltage plugin power supply I'd rather use over a battery.
You cannot use that
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 18th, 2016, 8:53 pm
by bernard
windu34 wrote:patil215 wrote:So the rules state "All energy storage devices must be contained in the Device, power supply, or controller(s)."
Does this mean it would be illegal to use a power supply that plugs into a standard wall socket? I have a fairly nice, constant voltage plugin power supply I'd rather use over a battery.
You cannot use that
Can you cite a specific section and paragraph that would suggest it is a violation of the rules? 3. allows optional separate power supply, 3.a. mentions that the separate power supply need not fit within the 30.0 cm x 30.0 cm x 100.0 cm imaginary box, and 3.d. lists some choices teams have for powering their device. Of course the voltage cannot exceed 14.4 volts (3.d.) and this must be verifiable, but it does not seem to be a violation.
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 18th, 2016, 11:20 pm
by bernard
bernard wrote:windu34 wrote:patil215 wrote:So the rules state "All energy storage devices must be contained in the Device, power supply, or controller(s)."
Does this mean it would be illegal to use a power supply that plugs into a standard wall socket? I have a fairly nice, constant voltage plugin power supply I'd rather use over a battery.
You cannot use that
Can you cite a specific section and paragraph that would suggest it is a violation of the rules? 3. allows optional separate power supply, 3.a. mentions that the separate power supply need not fit within the 30.0 cm x 30.0 cm x 100.0 cm imaginary box, and 3.d. lists some choices teams have for powering their device. Of course the voltage cannot exceed 14.4 volts (3.d.) and this must be verifiable, but it does not seem to be a violation.
UPDATE: Some discussion later, here's what we've got: the separate power supply does not violate the imaginary box rule (3.a.) by the first paragraph of section 3. 3.d. seems to only apply the 14.4 volt maximum rule for batteries, but makes no mention of other types. But if the 14.4 V maximum applies to all power sources used to power the device, then even variable power supplies that decrease the output voltage to 14.4 volts would not be allowed because at some points between the output and the wall socket the voltage would be around 120 volts. Some FAQ/clarification needed?
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 19th, 2016, 4:36 am
by windu34
Get a battery pack. Don't let this be the reason you get DQed. Additionally, you would be reliant on finding a wall outlet to power your device which is a very bad idea and could come back to bite you if the competition room happens to not have any outlets (you never know)
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 19th, 2016, 6:03 am
by jander14indoor
As usual, not official, submit a clarification to the official site, etc...
The device is NOT just what is in the box. Para 3 explicitly includes that AND external power supplies and controllers as part of the device. The paragraph on voltage applies to the device, thus any external power supplies, thus at NO place can the voltage exceed 14.4 volts. Eliminating wall current. AND step up power supplies if they exceed 14.4 volts.
If you do it, you will be tiered at some level of competition. Not a very wise risk for the potential benefit.
Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 20th, 2016, 1:19 pm
by patil215
Thanks for the responses everyone. One more question though - does this mean a laptop cannot be connected to the arm during the run? I have my controller connected to the USB port of the laptop, and the arduino connected to the laptop (purely for the purposes of getting the controller input and not as a power source).
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 20th, 2016, 2:29 pm
by windu34
patil215 wrote:Thanks for the responses everyone. One more question though - does this mean a laptop cannot be connected to the arm during the run? I have my controller connected to the USB port of the laptop, and the arduino connected to the laptop (purely for the purposes of getting the controller input and not as a power source).
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 20th, 2016, 2:36 pm
by jander14indoor
again, not official, etc...
Depends, does your laptop have a circuit that exceeds 14.4 volts? Most computers I'm aware of have 12V, 5V and 3V in their internal circuits. I have read SOME use a higher voltage for the screen LEDs, but only anecdotally. I doubt an event supervisor will tear your laptop apart to check circuits with a VOM. I haven't found a reliable source (doesn't mean it doesn't exist!) of that higher voltage, while I have for the 12, 5 and 3V (3.3? still well under limit) on the power bus.
And I'm reasonably confident none of the conventional IO ports in laptops is above 12 volts.
Most likely they'd at most ask you to show them your battery pack and check its labeled voltage. If its above 14.4 volts, you have a problem.
When not plugged into its wall charger of course for this purpose.
And again, feel free to submit an official clarification on the NSO website.
Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 20th, 2016, 9:34 pm
by Bazinga+
So I know that you receive 1 pt for each item completely within the north zone, but what if a pencil is lying on an egg carton, which is completely within the north zone, but the pencil happens to cross over into the south zone, but never touches it. Do you still get 1 pt or not?
What if the same happens and part of an item which is in a carton crosses over out of the playing field? Thanks.
Re: Robot Arm C
Posted: January 20th, 2016, 9:42 pm
by windu34
Bazinga+ wrote:So I know that you receive 1 pt for each item completely within the north zone, but what if a pencil is lying on an egg carton, which is completely within the north zone, but the pencil happens to cross over into the south zone, but never touches it. Do you still get 1 pt or not?
What if the same happens and part of an item which is in a carton crosses over out of the playing field? Thanks.
I believe the rules say "vertically extending lines defining the north zone", but I honestly don't know. Might end up being up to the ES, but would be nice to get a clarification/FAQ.