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same clade as crocodiles

fabishkf wrote:same clade as crocodiles

Reptiles don't include birds though: rather, a reptile is an amniote that is neither a mammal or a bird. This is because reptiles aren't actually a single clade.

Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).

fabishkf wrote:Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).

It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because hereptologists don't study birds.

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:

fabishkf wrote:Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).

It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because herpetologists don't study birds.

Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.

kate! wrote:

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:

fabishkf wrote:Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).

It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because herpetologists don't study birds.

Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.

Yeah, I hope that event supervisor didn't actually use that tiebreaker question...

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:

kate! wrote:

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote: It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because herpetologists don't study birds.

Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.

Yeah, I hope that event supervisor didn't actually use that tiebreaker question...

The Question was a whole separate question from the others and was labeled tiebreaker. The person who wrote the test wasn't a "Official test writer" they just volunteered and had done ecology before. Luckily it was only an invite

cbrant554 wrote:

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:

kate! wrote: Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.

Yeah, I hope that event supervisor didn't actually use that tiebreaker question...

The Question was a whole separate question from the others and was labeled tiebreaker. The person who wrote the test wasn't a "Official test writer" they just volunteered and had done ecology before. Luckily it was only an invite

Haha, props to the test writer for volunteering!

Are we allowed to use a published field guide in the herpetology event? If so, what's the best one?

anthony wrote: Are we allowed to use a published field guide in the herpetology event? If so, what's the best one?

As of the new rules for this year, only a student-made binder is allowed for competitions. Field guides can still be useful for gathering information and studying, though (Peterson's field guides are usually recommended), but aren't allowed in competitions.