Elevated Bridge B/C

Balsa Man
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by Balsa Man »

blue cobra wrote:I haven't directly asked, actually, but seeing as the C coach had the suspicious shifty eyes and told me to go pack up my bridge immediately after testing at regionals so no one could see it, as well as how they pack all their building events in opaque boxes and have even begun to play mind games on the other teams ( :lol: ) I doubt they'd look too kindly upon finding a picture of my bridge on here. And thanks again!
Wow…..
I’m not sure what I’m missing here, but I’m sure I’m missing something.
“Fearing what your coaches would do”/you being B-Div/talking about “the C-Div coach telling you to…”

Fear is a pretty strong word. I’d like to think that its just you not understanding where “they” are coming from. Coaching by instilling “fear” in students would be against…..everything that Science-O is about, which is why I find it hard to believe- that that’s how “they” work, -and that “they” would even consider “doing something” to you if you shared/posted a picture of something you created. Is it your team coach, or building events coach, or bridge coach, or the C- coach you refer to? If its one of your team coaches, and you’re moving on to high school next year, what do you “fear” they might “do”? If it’s the C- coach, I would assume they coach for the HS you’ll be moving up to, but why would they ….. have anything to say about what you do as a member of your B-Div team?? If this is where your fear is coming from, I’d have to assume it’s your fear (valid or not) of…..how they’ll handle you next year- being on the team, being on events you want to be on, etc. To do anything…..vindictive; to limit your potential, your success, your participation and enjoyment in S-O, because you shared a photo of something you created and are- and should be – proud of. I find that really hard to believe.

Over the years coaching, I’ve run into some coaches that are…..pretty far out there; that are…..IMHO, way too caught up in the competitive aspects, and have …..lost the perspective that S-O is about science education. Yes, part of coaching is teaching about being competitive – how to do the very best you can, how to understand, and push within the limits of, the rules, how to approach things, how to do the hard work it takes to do really well, to win. Part of – and I would argue the more important part of- coaching is also what science (and engineering) is- how it works; and that encompasses both the …..technical aspects/details, as well as how the science process and community works. Scientific understanding and progress comes from the sharing- as in publishing- of work done and discoveries made, and others in the scientific community understanding, adding to, expanding on, and sometimes making leaps from that growing “body of knowledge”, and then sharing their progress. Yes, there are exceptions to that open sharing – “national security” work is one example; “trade secret” work – where someone has invested significant money, and stands to make significant money (or loose it if “secrets” are revealed), is another. But neither S-O, nor your school, nor the C-school you’re headed for, nor the coaches for either, fall into or even close to any of these exceptions.

This board is…..our very small part of the scientific process; the literature, if you will, of S-O Elevated Bridge; sharing insights/progress; posing and answering questions, expanding our collective understanding and knowledge, and sharing accomplishments and successes. The photos in the Gallery – for all events, including bridge are an important part of that “literature”, and a great resource for all.

Whether and how you choose to share your knowledge, your accomplishments, your work is, again, IMHO, totally and completely up to you. The “intellectual property” of what the bridge(s) you have created look like is, or better be, yours. Unless “your coaches” designed and built it, it isn’t “theirs.” If they taught, and guided you, that’s (a very appropriate part of) coaching, and the end product is yours. You have good reason to be proud of what you have accomplished. Posting a picture is not going to “give away” any “secrets” of any value, to anyone.

Let me end this with a bit of context that makes any reluctance – wherever it might be coming from – to share anything about, and/or a photo of a 2009/2010 S-O Elevated Bridge that isn’t going to Nationals, and doesn’t involve …..cool tricks/insights that might win Nats, somewhere between silly and ludicrous. It won’t help anybody next year, because this event won’t be there next year. There are some valid competitive reasons between now and Nationals for some to…..keep quiet, and sit on things they’ve figured out, but that’s not the situation you’re in.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by nejanimb »

Totally agreed. Up until States this year, we've used our team to form a human-wall around the testing area and try to obscure what we had done, but this time (since this won't be an event anymore, and only one other team is going to nationals anyways) I was perfectly happy to let people see - show off, even. After nationals, we'll post pictures and explanations, since I think people would find it interesting.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by blue cobra »

I agree with you Balsa Man, and I believe the C coaches agree with you too, although I didn't communicate that effectively. I had homeroom with them this year, and believe me, they are very nice people, and definitely aren't instilling fear into myself or anyone, even if they can be a bit more competitive than the B coaches (although I would believe that comes from the fact that they [the whole team] are dying to make it to Nats, and are right at the edge). I meant the word "fear" as an obvious hyperbole, but re-reading my post, I see that through writing it came across as completely serious, and I apologize for that. I've gotten to know the C coaches this year, and, even if they may or may not prefer if I didn't, they would definitely not treat me any differently next year if I were to post a picture. And actually, now that I think about it, I'm not sure they would care at all. Avoiding teams that you'll be competing against from copying your design and a picture after this event is completely done are completely different, after all. If I truly did think the C coaches wouldn't want my bridge "out there"- to the point where they would even mention it- I wouldn't have posted the JHU picture with sizes, densities, final weights, and how I built it. So I apologize for this, and I really hope that you or anyone else doesn't think anything less of our truly amazing coaches, at both the B and C level, because of a miscommunication on my part.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by AlphaTauri »

I've heard that at PA States, there was one team whose supposedly 1500 efficency bridge (from previous testing and efficencies) tipped over during testing, leaving them with about a 600 efficency. Does anyone know if there's any truth to this, or is it something my team made up to help us feel better about not doing so well?
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by Balsa Man »

blue cobra wrote:I agree with you Balsa Man, and I believe the C coaches agree with you too, although I didn't communicate that effectively. .......So I apologize for this, and I really hope that you or anyone else doesn't think anything less of our truly amazing coaches, at both the B and C level, because of a miscommunication on my part.
As I said at the outset, "I must be missing something...", and "hard to believe" you actually had anything to fear. Thanks for clarifying. I certainly don't think anything less of them. Once Nationals is done, there is no value in anyone "hiding" E-B "secrets." It'll be....3, 4, 5, 6, ? years before it comes back. The photos (and all the discussions) - which I hope will still be accessable then - do, and will provide a great way for those new to the event to start from somewhere other than "square one." Sometime in the next few weeks, I'll get ours up; love to see yours. From what I can tell, there are not very many of us working in 3/32nd bass.
Cheers,
Len Joeris
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by jander14indoor »

For reference, Michigan State Tournament:
Div B top score: 1376
Div C top score: 1572

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

And no, I don't have pictures, sorry, I was at headquarters all day.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by cypressfalls Robert »

I've been noticing that this year there are so many teams that have hit a thousand and above and quite a few even higher than 1500, nationals will be pretty competitive compared to last year.
Last edited by cypressfalls Robert on May 3rd, 2010, 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by Aia »

cypressfalls Robert wrote:I've been noticing that this year there are so many teams that have hit a thousand and above and quite a few even higher than 1500, nationals will be pretty competitive compared to last year.
I can't decide how scores from this year will compare to last year. Though there are a lot of teams that hit 1500 or more, not all of them advance to nationals. If anything, I'd guess the average score at nationals will go up by 100-200 points because this is the second year that Elevated Bridge has been an event.
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by fmtiger124 »

Just found out that NY B div states was won with a 1442 efficiency. I'm seeing if i might be able to get pictures but I'm not sure yet
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Re: Elevated Bridge B/C

Post by winneratlife »

jander14indoor wrote:For reference, Michigan State Tournament:
Div B top score: 1376
Div C top score: 1572

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

And no, I don't have pictures, sorry, I was at headquarters all day.
THAT LOW?!?

What happened to Troy's 2000? I'll go ask them I guess.

I managed a 663. Not bad, I guess.
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