Wright Stuff B

[carneyf1d]

ok assuming your using the 6.5 cm wing chord i guess you could get away with it...however you are wasting weight that could go somewhere else more useful.

[smartkid222]

i know that you are used to your FAI competitions and i would be siding with you if i haden't got a phone call today. I got a phone call from the WS builder at the MS saying that he built the aeroracers plane and it weight was 7.2g without rubber and without cutting down the prop. I could not believe him; i was expecting something a lot more. If you can get that weight with an aeroracers then you really don't need to get to crazy about the weight of the covering.

[jander14indoor]

Actually my assumption was a 10 cm wing chord. Lightest wood needed 6.5 lb/ft3 density. Light, but not excessively so.

And yep, its just not that hard to hit 7.0 gm with tissue, almost ANY tissue.

Assuming you hit the same weight as that film covered model and all other features being equal, the tissue covered plane will fly just as long as a film covered one. It'll break more often from handling, but it will fly as long.

That 7.2 gm Aeroracers probably wouldn't win nationals, but if trimmed well, can win many regionals, and some states.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[smartkid222]

Assuming you hit the same weight as that film covered model and all other features being equal, the tissue covered plane will fly just as long as a film covered one. It'll break more often from handling, but it will fly as long.

That 7.2 gm Aeroracers probably wouldn't win nationals, but if trimmed well, can win many regionals, and some states.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

I don't think that a tissue covered plane would break more often, i would think it would break less b/c it is sturdier....oh i see you are saying because youre using lighter wood. I think that the covering glued onto the wood would keep it together and make it more resistant to breaking. so that would compensate.

The aeroracers defiently wouldn't win nationls or states and possible not even regionals. I was just using it as an example of how easy it is to get close to minium weight, if you have some experience (saying that so i won't offend any begginers).

Also Mr. Anderson what was the concensous on the opaque rule?

[jander14indoor]

As I thought about the discussion on covering I realized the following (warning, longish note):

Maybe it would be helpful to discuss what kinds of students my advice is aimed at. I use three categories.
1. Newbies and beginners. Never built a plane to SO like rules that flew more than 30 seconds. Just wants to get their plane to fly.
2. Intermediates. Built several planes, inconsistently make 1:30 to 2:00 plus flights with SO rules planes. Wants to move to the next level of SO competitiveness.
3. Advanced. Built LOTS of planes, routinely flies to 90% of what the rules allow that year, can describe the differences between TAN Sport, TAN Super Sport, and TAN II and knows which batch of TAN II they want a piece of. Ready to build an F1D.

I do this because I find the advice I give varies greatly between these categories because the core problems vary greatly.

For the newbies and beginners, frankly it almost doesn't matter whether they use TAN II or office rubber bands; solid or hollow motor sticks; 3% or 4% camber. It just doesn't matter because they don't know they can build a plane that REALLY flies! They need to get SOMETHING flying quickly before they can progress. For that the most important thing is a reliable, easy to build, easy to adjust basic design built at or CLOSE to min weight (no more than 8 gm or so).

For the intermediates, you can start talking about BUILDING TO EXACTLY TO WEIGHT (I'm amazed how many intermediate flyers still don't have this one) rubber, winding techniques, prop modifications, advanced trim. These are the big factors that affect flight time by several 10s of seconds. Almost as important with this group is developing good competition habits. I hate second tiering the top plane of the day for silly stuff like a dimension 1 mm too large or 30% penalty for forgetting a log when I've seen it at practice, but I've had to do it. Discussing things like wing camber, leading edge shape, and the like are by far secondary effects they have trouble evaluating due to the variability of those first factors.

For advanced students you are into things like wing shape, camber, leading edge shaping, hollow motor sticks, very long planes, etc. The important advise I can give to these students is "I don't know, can I see how you did that?" and "Have you considered building and F1D and competing for the US team?" (insert smiley here).

So, for this covering discussion.

Beginners, any light covering you can get quickly is fine, just compensate with lighter wood.

For intermediates, try to find lighter coverings, as you can make a sturdier plane, but don't sweat it as long as you hit 7.0 gm.

For advanced. "Gee, isn't OS2 film a little overkill for an SO plane?" (This joke makes more sense if you know OS2 film is pricey and used to make those big 1.1 gm F1D planes that fly 30 minutes or more!) More seriously I can only answer some of these guys questions, sometimes point out useful directions, and try to connect them to the 'real' indoor flyers. Some of whom inhabit this list, some of whom got started in Wright Stuff.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[jander14indoor]

<SNIP>
I don't think that a tissue covered plane would break more often, i would think it would break less b/c it is sturdier....oh i see you are saying because youre using lighter wood. I think that the covering glued onto the wood would keep it together and make it more resistant to breaking. so that would compensate.
<SNIP>
Also Mr. Anderson what was the concensous on the opaque rule?

I haven't found the tissue to reinforce the wood any. Covering is just too flexible to make much difference in breakage unless you are talking something like construction paper (ewwww, now that WOULD be too heavy). And if you used enough glue to reinforce anything, use lots less glue on the next plane!

NON-official answer (I have no authority, nor is this the place for an official answer). There is no opaque requirement in this years published rules. Check it for yourself. Anything else on the national website (except official clarifications) is for info, use at your own risk, etc.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[smartkid222]

Edit* ok i'm a 2. This is b/c i've done BLG but not WS, so i am knoledgeable on some topics but not others. I barley know anything about rubber. (what is the difference between the Tans IDK).
I did however get the OS joke. OS is about $30 and has a thinkness of .5microns and no i didn't have to look that up. The only think ligher that is Y2k, or Y2k2 which does not exist anymore.

[planesarefun52]

when you have weight left over wthout being over the minimum, how should you add it?

[bob3443]

This is not my best event but I would say add some glue to the joints.

[Pleiades]

While building my bridge i found that adding glue to previously glued joints makes them weaker. Is this true or is my balsa and glue just being mean to me?? i suppose you could use clay as well if you need to add a lot of mass.