Future Aviation Events

jander14indoor
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by jander14indoor »

twototwenty wrote:One thing I thought of in regards to changes in the rules was the part about releasing room dimensions before the competition. Since the room width/length affects how wide a circle of descent you want and thus affects your build, you would need to know far in advance, and the way that part is worded, I can just see competitors being told the morning of the competiton at some regionals, which would not be good.
This is no different from Wright Stuff in the past, circle size there was a contributor to performance (though not the most important if you didn't go too small). You will have all the usual problems of last minute room changes, event supervisors, etc.

We cannot from the national dictate the room for flying events at every tournament, we can only suggest. Heck, from the nationals ceiling dicussion thread you can see us rules writers can't even dictate the national room!!! While most tournaments may be good about announcing in advance, you as a competitor MUST be prepared for surprises. If you learn nothing else from SO, learn that and you'll be well prepared for real life.

If you haven't already heard of this old cliche, learn it: Murphy's law, whatever can go wrong, will. Common view among engineers, Murphy was an optimist, when it goes wrong, it will be the worst way at the worst time!

This does not mean things are out of your control. While you can't beat Murphy, you can minimize his impact. Prepare for surprises by efficiently determining what the likely surprises are, less likely and real unlikely. Then have pre-determined answers for the most likely, some of the less likely, and a strategy for how you'd react for the least likely.

Speaking to 'room surprises' what are they and how do you deal with them. The most common are: height, minimum horizontal dimensions, ceiling type, obstacles, air conditions.

How do you deal with them?
Height: You will find three broad ranges of heights start driving very different gliders. Backup plan, have alternate gliders trimmed for different heights and select correct one on day of competition. This is possible for gliders as they are relatively simple and cheap to build.
Min horizontal dimensions. Larger is better, but not in a linear fashion. Try different size circles and see how it affects time. You'll find beyond a reasonable diameter, not much is gained. Trim for a safe diameter in the announced room. Then, practice CHANGING your turn diameter. It is very doable on a finished glider but not something you want to do the first time in a contest. Basically you 'break' and repair the glider with new trim settings!
And so on, I'll leave some stuff for you guys to figure out till later or when have more time to write.

Jeff Anderson
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by mrsteven »

A few questions:
For 'trimming' in different hieght areas, how do you go about that? Shouldn't a high-altitude one work at lower altitudes with a smaller/weaker rubber to launch?

Also as I am a left handed individuals, I find that ALL glider-type models and plans specifically say for rightys (or are assumed for them), that is the difference between left/right handedness that dictate a plan for only rightys?
Is there a way to change the plans slightly to accommodate for my innate ailment :D haha

Finally, to get a 'circular' motion downwards, would I be current in saying you need to move the rudder left/right to make a circle? I tried this and it didn't change anything with an evident curvature to the left. I cannot get it to go in a circle... its a problem...
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by calliekernick »

I'm still finding the rule regarding the radius of the fuselage and the dime to be very ambiguous. Janner14indoor mentioned previously "A flat 1/4 thick by 1/2 diameter balsa disk shall be firmly attached to the forward most point of the glider" as a suggestion for a change in the rules. If I were to make a glider with a disk like this on the end, would it qualify for the current rules? If not, what exactly does the rule mean and how will it be tested at Nationals?
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by chalker7 »

calliekernick wrote:I'm still finding the rule regarding the radius of the fuselage and the dime to be very ambiguous. Janner14indoor mentioned previously "A flat 1/4 thick by 1/2 diameter balsa disk shall be firmly attached to the forward most point of the glider" as a suggestion for a change in the rules. If I were to make a glider with a disk like this on the end, would it qualify for the current rules? If not, what exactly does the rule mean and how will it be tested at Nationals?
We can't answer official questions like that through unofficial forums. However, my guess is that if whatever you have on the front of your glider can physically cover a dime, you will most likely be legal (but I make no guarantees.)
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by twototwenty »

mrsteven wrote:A few questions:
For 'trimming' in different hieght areas, how do you go about that? Shouldn't a high-altitude one work at lower altitudes with a smaller/weaker rubber to launch?

Also as I am a left handed individuals, I find that ALL glider-type models and plans specifically say for rightys (or are assumed for them), that is the difference between left/right handedness that dictate a plan for only rightys?
Is there a way to change the plans slightly to accommodate for my innate ailment :D haha

Finally, to get a 'circular' motion downwards, would I be current in saying you need to move the rudder left/right to make a circle? I tried this and it didn't change anything with an evident curvature to the left. I cannot get it to go in a circle... its a problem...
I believe that you can put the wings on the fuselage at an angle, or make the wings themselves angled/assymetrical, to have the same effect. However, I also have some questions on this, such as how it is done, and how much of an angle to put the wings at, so if someone who knows more about it could clarify this, it would be wonderful.
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by chalker7 »

twototwenty wrote:
mrsteven wrote:A few questions:
For 'trimming' in different hieght areas, how do you go about that? Shouldn't a high-altitude one work at lower altitudes with a smaller/weaker rubber to launch?

Also as I am a left handed individuals, I find that ALL glider-type models and plans specifically say for rightys (or are assumed for them), that is the difference between left/right handedness that dictate a plan for only rightys?
Is there a way to change the plans slightly to accommodate for my innate ailment :D haha

Finally, to get a 'circular' motion downwards, would I be current in saying you need to move the rudder left/right to make a circle? I tried this and it didn't change anything with an evident curvature to the left. I cannot get it to go in a circle... its a problem...
I believe that you can put the wings on the fuselage at an angle, or make the wings themselves angled/assymetrical, to have the same effect. However, I also have some questions on this, such as how it is done, and how much of an angle to put the wings at, so if someone who knows more about it could clarify this, it would be wonderful.
This is a pretty comprehensive discussion of all types of trimming (including making it turn.) http://legacy.amaglider.com/assets/gene ... mming.html
The short answer is you want to tilt the stab (which is not the same as tilting the wings) or use some rudder (but not too much.)
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by jander14indoor »

Yes, you can launch any glider to any height. BUT, you can optimize the glider to a given height (or smallish range of heights).

Quick example, low ceiling room. Doesn't take much energy to get to the ceiling, not much stress, you can build real light and have a slower descent. That same glider if you attempted to launch it to 100 ft in a sports stadium would shred. To survive a launch to 100 ft, you have to make the glider heavier, giving up something in glide. Use it at a low ceiling site, and that light glider will now beat you.

Look at the AMA glider site and study some of the plans. Some gliders are low ceiling designs, some high. Note the differences.

Jeff Anderson
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by calliekernick »

Another quick question about the dime rule-- maybe you'll be able to answer it, maybe not. I initially thought the rule referred to something 2D... as in, you would place a dime on the side of the fuselage to determine how rounded the end was (and the actual thickness of the fuselage wouldn't matter). Now I'm thinking that it does deal with thickness. However, it's still a bit unclear. The wording makes it seem like the end of the fuselage must be double the thickness of a dime, since it says "with a radius greater than a dime" and not "a radius greater than that of a dime". If you meant the former, that seems like a very thick fuselage. Does the rule simply mean that the end of the fuselage must be rounded and able to cover a dime? I understand that this isn't a place for official rule clarifications, but I want to make sure I understand the rule before building my fuselage today.
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by chalker7 »

calliekernick wrote:Another quick question about the dime rule-- maybe you'll be able to answer it, maybe not. I initially thought the rule referred to something 2D... as in, you would place a dime on the side of the fuselage to determine how rounded the end was (and the actual thickness of the fuselage wouldn't matter). Now I'm thinking that it does deal with thickness. However, it's still a bit unclear. The wording makes it seem like the end of the fuselage must be double the thickness of a dime, since it says "with a radius greater than a dime" and not "a radius greater than that of a dime". If you meant the former, that seems like a very thick fuselage. Does the rule simply mean that the end of the fuselage must be rounded and able to cover a dime? I understand that this isn't a place for official rule clarifications, but I want to make sure I understand the rule before building my fuselage today.
If I were running it at nationals (which I am not) I would only be concerned with the 2D orientation, but I agree this is unclear.
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Re: Future Aviation Events

Post by science8 »

Gah. How can i make it go in circles? Please use simple language because i dont really know the words other then fuselage.

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