Re: Season 2012 - Site suggestions
Posted: February 21st, 2012, 8:23 pm
@zyzzyva98: I thought that was very well put. It is important that the leadership understands and can articulate the mission of the wiki and this website, less we stray off course or focus on trivial matters.
I agree with your vision for each wiki page to contain valuable information for both beginners and veterans alike. I am sure this is attainable at some point in the future, but it won't happen without a dedicated core of writers who are experienced in their events. That's arguably the most important step to improving the wiki, but so far I haven't been able to come up with any viable way to increase this number.
Thanks for letting me know about the editing policy. I still think that the Thermo page contains unnecessary information that may be intimidating for a new Olympian, but I won't remove any of it. Do you know if the wiki supports hiding paragraphs, via something similar to the hide tag on the forum? This would be one possible way to keep the page from looking cluttered while still retaining the more technical information for older members. My only concern with the event pages trying to be comprehensive is that it leads to a lot of copy-pasting or paraphrasing of another source, which seems unnecessary and counter productive. In my opinion, what would be more ideal is a short blurb about each topic and then links to specific videos or webpages (not just a general link to Wikipedia) that explain the subject in more detail.
For example, on the Thermo page, there is a section on the Carnot cycle that is essentially a wall of text. A fairly well written wall of text for that matter, but it looks messy, complicated, and makes itself so easy for the eyes to just glaze over and keep scrolling down. A classic example of something that is not helpful to the beginner, and not useful to the veteran. Experienced members will realize that the Carnot cycle is an important concept in thermodynamics and you can be sure he or she has studied it from a more reliable and comprehensive source. Therefore, it would be more helpful to everyone if the blurb talked about the general idea behind the Carnot Cycle (without equations!) and emphasized that "Hey! This is one of the things you better figure out if you want to be successful!" and then linked to a video like this from Khan Academy or a textbook that explains it well and/or in greater detail. What do you think?
I'm a big fan of the wiki, and I would love to see it be used more by everyone. But in order to do this, I think we really do need to reevaluate the functionality of the wiki from the perspective of the user, rather than from the viewpoint of a writer who's idealized goal is to have a comprehensive webpage of the event.
As for Skink's last comment, just posting the rules of the event is not the most helpful thing to a newcomer. Ideally, our audience is not the ignorant users who post open ended questions like "Hi, I'm new to this event. How do I make a thermo device?" I think we should target the members one step above these people, who have taken the time to read the rules and are now looking to explore the event in greater detail. The rules only tell you so much. For Thermo, it won't tell you how to build a device or what the basic ideas are. I think the Mousetrap Vehicle page does a good job of explaining the idea behind the event and, as you say, distilling the page down to be helpful and informative to a newcomer, without copping out and throwing the rules at the reader (which is illegal anyway). It gives a general description of the concepts that are most popular, without explicitly saying what works best or giving an exact procedure to building a nationally competitive car. That part can only come from experience and practice in the event itself.
So in short, the rules are not the most helpful thing to a newcomer, rather it is giving the reader a general sense of the event, what it entails, what it generally looks like, what subjects to study, and how to go about being successful in the event. I believe all this can be accomplished without really referring to specifications in the rules or giving away competitive secrets.
I agree with your vision for each wiki page to contain valuable information for both beginners and veterans alike. I am sure this is attainable at some point in the future, but it won't happen without a dedicated core of writers who are experienced in their events. That's arguably the most important step to improving the wiki, but so far I haven't been able to come up with any viable way to increase this number.
Thanks for letting me know about the editing policy. I still think that the Thermo page contains unnecessary information that may be intimidating for a new Olympian, but I won't remove any of it. Do you know if the wiki supports hiding paragraphs, via something similar to the hide tag on the forum? This would be one possible way to keep the page from looking cluttered while still retaining the more technical information for older members. My only concern with the event pages trying to be comprehensive is that it leads to a lot of copy-pasting or paraphrasing of another source, which seems unnecessary and counter productive. In my opinion, what would be more ideal is a short blurb about each topic and then links to specific videos or webpages (not just a general link to Wikipedia) that explain the subject in more detail.
For example, on the Thermo page, there is a section on the Carnot cycle that is essentially a wall of text. A fairly well written wall of text for that matter, but it looks messy, complicated, and makes itself so easy for the eyes to just glaze over and keep scrolling down. A classic example of something that is not helpful to the beginner, and not useful to the veteran. Experienced members will realize that the Carnot cycle is an important concept in thermodynamics and you can be sure he or she has studied it from a more reliable and comprehensive source. Therefore, it would be more helpful to everyone if the blurb talked about the general idea behind the Carnot Cycle (without equations!) and emphasized that "Hey! This is one of the things you better figure out if you want to be successful!" and then linked to a video like this from Khan Academy or a textbook that explains it well and/or in greater detail. What do you think?
I'm a big fan of the wiki, and I would love to see it be used more by everyone. But in order to do this, I think we really do need to reevaluate the functionality of the wiki from the perspective of the user, rather than from the viewpoint of a writer who's idealized goal is to have a comprehensive webpage of the event.
As for Skink's last comment, just posting the rules of the event is not the most helpful thing to a newcomer. Ideally, our audience is not the ignorant users who post open ended questions like "Hi, I'm new to this event. How do I make a thermo device?" I think we should target the members one step above these people, who have taken the time to read the rules and are now looking to explore the event in greater detail. The rules only tell you so much. For Thermo, it won't tell you how to build a device or what the basic ideas are. I think the Mousetrap Vehicle page does a good job of explaining the idea behind the event and, as you say, distilling the page down to be helpful and informative to a newcomer, without copping out and throwing the rules at the reader (which is illegal anyway). It gives a general description of the concepts that are most popular, without explicitly saying what works best or giving an exact procedure to building a nationally competitive car. That part can only come from experience and practice in the event itself.
So in short, the rules are not the most helpful thing to a newcomer, rather it is giving the reader a general sense of the event, what it entails, what it generally looks like, what subjects to study, and how to go about being successful in the event. I believe all this can be accomplished without really referring to specifications in the rules or giving away competitive secrets.
