Unofficial Rankings B

[EastStroudsburg13]

I would argue that while California certainly has great teams, Illinois/Ohio are the only ones that consistently exceed all others - since 2008, only 2014B, 2016C, and 2008C have been non-Illinois/Ohio teams. In fact, a California team has never won Div B nats (except in 1987 lol) - although Churchill did come extremely close 3 times. This might be the year, especially with Kennedy being such a powerhouse school.

Illinois B is very strong, but with Illinois C only placing in the top 5 once in the 21st century, I don't think it matches California or Ohio, which have been strong in both divisions. If we're talking history, I would agree that Ohio is the more historically dominant state; however, if we're talking present day, I would say California is currently tougher than Ohio.

One thing that I find worth considering - if Churchill had remained at its 2016/2017 strength, and hadn't lost its coach (I heard that the coach left?), would Kennedy still be winning Norcal? I may be wrong here, but it seems that Kennedy has only risen because of Churchill's "fall".

That's a fair question; I think Churchill losing a step definitely motivated Kennedy, but this year's Kennedy appears clearly stronger than last year's. I think it would be a very close match between 2017 Churchill and 2019 Kennedy, one that unfortunately is left to hypotheticals.

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I feel that Kennedy is just as strong, if not a bit weaker, than last year.

2017 (Churchill) - 47 points, 13 golds, 20 top 3 placements.
2018 (Kennedy) - 62 points, 9 golds, 16 top 3 placements.
2019 (Kennedy) - 71 points, 9 golds, 16 top 3 placements.

Although the medals look similar, there were a similar amount of bombs both years Kennedy won. In 2018, their worst placements were 12, 7, 6, 5. In 2019, their worst placements were 11, 9, 8, 5. In general, I feel like they're a little more inconsistent.

They're still probably going to place in the top 3 at nats though.

My disagreement comes primarily out of the strength of Kennedy's invitational performance, which was higher than last year. A 9-point variation in points is relatively low, and could be explained away if NorCalplaya's analysis that Churchill is stronger this year than last is correct. I did expect them to have a lower score at states, though, so we will see how their nationals performance compares.

[sciolyperson1]

Illinois B is very strong, but with Illinois C only placing in the top 5 once in the 21st century, I don't think it matches California or Ohio, which have been strong in both divisions. If we're talking history, I would agree that Ohio is the more historically dominant state; however, if we're talking present day, I would say California is currently tougher than Ohio.


That's a fair question; I think Churchill losing a step definitely motivated Kennedy, but this year's Kennedy appears clearly stronger than last year's. I think it would be a very close match between 2017 Churchill and 2019 Kennedy, one that unfortunately is left to hypotheticals.

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I feel that Kennedy is just as strong, if not a bit weaker, than last year.

2017 (Churchill) - 47 points, 13 golds, 20 top 3 placements.
2018 (Kennedy) - 62 points, 9 golds, 16 top 3 placements.
2019 (Kennedy) - 71 points, 9 golds, 16 top 3 placements.

Although the medals look similar, there were a similar amount of bombs both years Kennedy won. In 2018, their worst placements were 12, 7, 6, 5. In 2019, their worst placements were 11, 9, 8, 5. In general, I feel like they're a little more inconsistent.

They're still probably going to place in the top 3 at nats though.

My disagreement comes primarily out of the strength of Kennedy's invitational performance, which was higher than last year. A 9-point variation in points is relatively low, and could be explained away if NorCalplaya's analysis that Churchill is stronger this year than last is correct. I did expect them to have a lower score at states, though, so we will see how their nationals performance compares.

I don't really think invitational performance reflects the team well - we placed 1st at Rustin and 2nd at Garnet last year, yet we still ended up 3rd for some reason. This year, although we've won all of the competitions we've attended, I doubt we'll place top 3. Top 6? Probably, but I don't think top 3 will happen for us, let alone top 1.

[EastStroudsburg13]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I feel that Kennedy is just as strong, if not a bit weaker, than last year.

2017 (Churchill) - 47 points, 13 golds, 20 top 3 placements.
2018 (Kennedy) - 62 points, 9 golds, 16 top 3 placements.
2019 (Kennedy) - 71 points, 9 golds, 16 top 3 placements.

Although the medals look similar, there were a similar amount of bombs both years Kennedy won. In 2018, their worst placements were 12, 7, 6, 5. In 2019, their worst placements were 11, 9, 8, 5. In general, I feel like they're a little more inconsistent.

They're still probably going to place in the top 3 at nats though.

My disagreement comes primarily out of the strength of Kennedy's invitational performance, which was higher than last year. A 9-point variation in points is relatively low, and could be explained away if NorCalplaya's analysis that Churchill is stronger this year than last is correct. I did expect them to have a lower score at states, though, so we will see how their nationals performance compares.

I don't really think invitational performance reflects the team well - we placed 1st at Rustin and 2nd at Garnet last year, yet we still ended up 3rd for some reason. This year, although we've won all of the competitions we've attended, I doubt we'll place top 3. Top 6? Probably, but I don't think top 3 will happen for us, let alone top 1.

I'm expecting the popular opinion of this site to rank Community in the top three. We'll have to wait and see what happens there.

[sciolyperson1]

My disagreement comes primarily out of the strength of Kennedy's invitational performance, which was higher than last year. A 9-point variation in points is relatively low, and could be explained away if NorCalplaya's analysis that Churchill is stronger this year than last is correct. I did expect them to have a lower score at states, though, so we will see how their nationals performance compares.

I don't really think invitational performance reflects the team well - we placed 1st at Rustin and 2nd at Garnet last year, yet we still ended up 3rd for some reason. This year, although we've won all of the competitions we've attended, I doubt we'll place top 3. Top 6? Probably, but I don't think top 3 will happen for us, let alone top 1.

I'm expecting the popular opinion of this site to rank Community in the top three. We'll have to wait and see what happens there.

Wasn't it also in popular opinion to rank Beckendorff top 3 as well last year

[EastStroudsburg13]

I don't really think invitational performance reflects the team well - we placed 1st at Rustin and 2nd at Garnet last year, yet we still ended up 3rd for some reason. This year, although we've won all of the competitions we've attended, I doubt we'll place top 3. Top 6? Probably, but I don't think top 3 will happen for us, let alone top 1.

I'm expecting the popular opinion of this site to rank Community in the top three. We'll have to wait and see what happens there.

Wasn't it also in popular opinion to rank Beckendorff top 3 as well last year

Correct. Popular opinion is a decent indicator but very flawed as well.

[SOPomo]

I would put CA's top five against any other state. Give me Kennedy, Churchill, Kraemer, Jeffrey Trail, and either Miller/Oak Valley.

I think that's fair. I would also agree that California has the toughest teams in both divisions, with Ohio the only state coming close.

I would argue that while California certainly has great teams, Illinois/Ohio are the only ones that consistently exceed all others - since 2008, only 2014B, 2016C, and 2008C have been non-Illinois/Ohio teams. In fact, a California team has never won Div B nats (except in 1987 lol) - although Churchill did come extremely close 3 times. This might be the year, especially with Kennedy being such a powerhouse school.

My point is not "top one", it's "top five". How deep is Illinois and Ohio?

I can answer my own question for Ohio, as they archive their results. I didn't see Illinois do the same.

In B in 2018, Solon won by 46, then 91, then 113, then 137. If it's Solon, Tower Heights, Watts, Magsig, New Albany vs Kennedy, Churchill, Kraemer, Jeffrey Trail, and Oak Valley or Miller, I've got my money on CA.

In C in 2018, Mason-Solon-Mentor-Centerville-Westlake could match up fairly well v Troy-Mira Loma-Mountain View-(two of Palo Alto / Albany / CCA) but I still like my chances in CA.

Your argument against CA B works even better against Illinois C, who hasn't placed higher than 5th. The only top-one comparison to CA would be Ohio, since CA gets Troy's ten million wins while Ohio get's Solon's B wins.

And speaking of that, what tournaments are you looking at for Div C that "only" 2016C and 2008C were non-Illinois/Ohio? Troy has won 12 times. CA has won the last five years (four Troy, one Mira Loma).

[SOPomo]

(deleted, quoted my own post hah)

[sciolyperson1]

I think that's fair. I would also agree that California has the toughest teams in both divisions, with Ohio the only state coming close.

I would argue that while California certainly has great teams, Illinois/Ohio are the only ones that consistently exceed all others - since 2008, only 2014B, 2016C, and 2008C have been non-Illinois/Ohio teams. In fact, a California team has never won Div B nats (except in 1987 lol) - although Churchill did come extremely close 3 times. This might be the year, especially with Kennedy being such a powerhouse school.

My point is not "top one", it's "top five". How deep is Illinois and Ohio?

I can answer my own question for Ohio, as they archive their results. I didn't see Illinois do the same.

In B in 2018, Solon won by 46, then 91, then 113, then 137. If it's Solon, Tower Heights, Watts, Magsig, New Albany vs Kennedy, Churchill, Kraemer, Jeffrey Trail, and Oak Valley or Miller, I've got my money on CA.

In C in 2018, Mason-Solon-Mentor-Centerville-Westlake could match up fairly well v Troy-Mira Loma-Mountain View-(two of Palo Alto / Albany / CCA) but I still like my chances in CA.

Your argument against CA B works even better against Illinois C, who hasn't placed higher than 5th. The only top-one comparison to CA would be Ohio, since CA gets Troy's ten million wins while Ohio get's Solon's B wins.

And speaking of that, what tournaments are you looking at for Div C that "only" 2016C and 2008C were non-Illinois/Ohio? Troy has won 12 times. CA has won the last five years (four Troy, one Mira Loma).

Lmao I think I brain farted for Div C sksjsksj but yea, I get your point of the top 5 vs top 5. Competitions in Cali are much more close than Ohioan ones.

[dxu46]

Updated predictions (for B)
1. Solon (duh)
2. Community (won every invitational they've been to, plus last year's great improvement)
3. Kennedy
4. Beckendorff (I don't know anything about Beckendorff this year but i'll just put them at 4th because other people predict them high)
5. Daniel Wright (definitely weaker)
6. Kraemer (good state score, overall good team)
7. Gelinas (good state score brings them up)
8. Springhouse (not sure about this one)
9. Marie Murphy (looks like they almost beat Daniel Wright at state)
10. Piedmont
11. Longfellow
12. Tower Heights
13. Meads Mill (may be a bit low but they were beaten at regionals, albeit only by 1 point, but it's still bad)
14. Highlands
15. SSA
16. Hamilton
17. Eagle Hill
18. MI Team 2
19. MO
20. Evergreen

[Deathstalker]

Updated predictions (for B)
1. Solon (duh)
2. Community (won every invitational they've been to, plus last year's great improvement)
3. Kennedy
4. Beckendorff (I don't know anything about Beckendorff this year but i'll just put them at 4th because other people predict them high)
5. Daniel Wright (definitely weaker)
6. Kraemer (good state score, overall good team)
7. Gelinas (good state score brings them up)
8. Springhouse (not sure about this one)
9. Marie Murphy (looks like they almost beat Daniel Wright at state)
10. Piedmont
11. Longfellow
12. Tower Heights
13. Meads Mill (may be a bit low but they were beaten at regionals, albeit only by 1 point, but it's still bad)
14. Highlands
15. SSA
16. Hamilton
17. Eagle Hill
18. MI Team 2
19. MO
20. Evergreen

Nevermind, Solon wasn't extremely stacked at Cornell. Whoops.