Meaning of Rules

[blakinator8]

A new rules clarification has been posted for mission (in comic cans, for some reason?)

Mission Possible 3.g. should read "Electrical components may be used in the device, but no computers or integrated circuits are allowed except an unmodified commercially sold buzzer may be used in the final task. (3/3/15)

Mission Possible 4. A jug is defined as any plastic beverage container that has sides that are at least 10cm high. There is no requirement that the jug/container has or had a handle on it. (3/3/15)
Picture This: A TEAM OF: 3. should read A TEAM OF UP TO: 3. (10/29/14)

[bernard]

FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.

[goodcheer]

FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.

The clarification about the jug not requiring a handle should change some of the FAQs which mention the jug had to have a handle. Does that mean a bottle will be accepted?

For example: http://soinc.org/node/1585

and: http://soinc.org/node/1584

[bernard]

FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.

The clarification about the jug not requiring a handle should change some of the FAQs which mention the jug had to have a handle. Does that mean a bottle will be accepted?

For example: http://soinc.org/node/1585

and: http://soinc.org/node/1584

Yes.

[goodcheer]

FAQs/clarifications are being synced, so check back tonight for any changes.

The clarification about the jug not requiring a handle should change some of the FAQs which mention the jug had to have a handle. Does that mean a bottle will be accepted?

For example: http://soinc.org/node/1585

and: http://soinc.org/node/1584

Yes.

Thank you. That should help some of the competitors. Thanks to all those who work on these rules issues: not an easy task.

[goodcheer]

Concerning the FAQ that says you don't have to lift the golf balls for an ETS:

Is it correct you still have to collect a before and after golf ball into a scoring jug?

And, does it matter how high or low the jugs are in the device since you don't have to lift the golf balls (for an ETS)?

Before you answer that last question, consider par. 4 line 1 of the rule book: "The Device Task is to raise one or more golf balls, collecting them in one or more scoring jugs...." The rules for raising and collecting golf balls are found in 4a. Since the golf ball that scores has to be below the lowest jug, then the jugs for the ETSs have to be at least that high in the device.

My last question: Will there be any penalty/tiering if a device does not lift and collect at least one golf ball per the rules?

[watermydoing14]

Concerning the FAQ that says you don't have to lift the golf balls for an ETS:

Is it correct you still have to collect a before and after golf ball into a scoring jug?

And, does it matter how high or low the jugs are in the device since you don't have to lift the golf balls (for an ETS)?

Before you answer that last question, consider par. 4 line 1 of the rule book: "The Device Task is to raise one or more golf balls, collecting them in one or more scoring jugs...." The rules for raising and collecting golf balls are found in 4a. Since the golf ball that scores has to be below the lowest jug, then the jugs for the ETSs have to be at least that high in the device.

My last question: Will there be any penalty/tiering if a device does not lift and collect at least one golf ball per the rules?

This is my current interpretation:

Nowhere in the machine does a golf ball have to be lifted into a scoring jug, which has been clarified several times in the FAQs. However, I believe there still must be legal scoring jugs in order to score points for the ETS because scoring jugs are reference multiple times in rule 4.b., which delineates the criteria for scoring points for a bonus ETS. An ETS must be "initiated by the process of a golf ball moving into a scoring jug," must "cause the next golf ball to move toward and into a scoring jug," and "both the initiating golf ball and the next golf ball drop into a scoring jug." That means if you don't have a legal scoring jug (lowest point of opening is 10cm above lowest point of jug, previously held a beverage, plastic), you cannot score any ETSs. As for the position of the jugs, as long as you aren't trying to get points for golf balls, it's totally fine to put jugs as low as possible on the machine. The definition of a scoring jug is not determined by hypothetical golf balls that might be lifted.

[ScienceNerd27]

I emailed the state director this question.
"My partner and I have a question regarding Mission Possible and our device. Right now our device has the final golf ball closing a switch that turns on a flashlight, that powers photocells that causes the buzzer to go off. We were unsure whether that would allowed for the final task and be counted as a bonus energy transfer per the rules in 4b and 4c?"

I got this reply:
"Here is your request:
As long as it clearly meets the requirements in 4b and 4c and is unique in that you have not used the same energy transfers before."

I do appreciate his time but this doesn't really help my partner and I.

The reason we added the flashlight and photocells in between the switch the golf ball hits and the buzzer was we were trying to include another bonus sequence but I don't want to get the points for that and lose the points for the final task. Do you guys think this is acceptable per the rules or something that needs changed?

[iwonder]

I emailed the state director this question.
"My partner and I have a question regarding Mission Possible and our device. Right now our device has the final golf ball closing a switch that turns on a flashlight, that powers photocells that causes the buzzer to go off. We were unsure whether that would allowed for the final task and be counted as a bonus energy transfer per the rules in 4b and 4c?"

I got this reply:
"Here is your request:
As long as it clearly meets the requirements in 4b and 4c and is unique in that you have not used the same energy transfers before."

I do appreciate his time but this doesn't really help my partner and I.

The reason we added the flashlight and photocells in between the switch the golf ball hits and the buzzer was we were trying to include another bonus sequence but I don't want to get the points for that and lose the points for the final task. Do you guys think this is acceptable per the rules or something that needs changed?

First off, state officials are sometimes very picky about answering specific questions about your device, because in some sense it's asking them to judge the device before the contest, which is a bit questionable in nature.

Next, I think 4b makes it very clear that the ETS has to end with another golf ball moving towards (and into) a scoring jug (sections 4 and 6), but that's just my opinion.

[killer225whale]

iwonder is right; you'd need a golf ball at the end for that to count as an ETS.