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Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: September 28th, 2023, 12:09 pm
by theskyistillred
Where can I find resources for robot tour? I cannot find any on soinc.org
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: September 28th, 2023, 3:02 pm
by brian9640
Where can I find resources for robot tour? I cannot find any on soinc.org
There will be some material posted on the national website some time in October. I'm not sure it will be what you are looking for. Some information has been posted earlier on this thread. What kind of information do you need? Myself and others may be able to point you in the right direction.
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: October 1st, 2023, 6:35 pm
by theskyistillred
brian9640 wrote: ↑September 28th, 2023, 3:02 pm
Where can I find resources for robot tour? I cannot find any on soinc.org
There will be some material posted on the national website some time in October. I'm not sure it will be what you are looking for. Some information has been posted earlier on this thread. What kind of information do you need? Myself and others may be able to point you in the right direction.
Things like the rules and more details on the "one file" rule. Do you know where I can find such information? Also, can I use a completely pre-made robot (like one where no building is required? Thanks for the help!
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: October 2nd, 2023, 6:19 am
by brian9640
theskyistillred wrote: ↑October 1st, 2023, 6:35 pm
brian9640 wrote: ↑September 28th, 2023, 3:02 pm
Where can I find resources for robot tour? I cannot find any on soinc.org
There will be some material posted on the national website some time in October. I'm not sure it will be what you are looking for. Some information has been posted earlier on this thread. What kind of information do you need? Myself and others may be able to point you in the right direction.
Things like the rules and more details on the "one file" rule. Do you know where I can find such information? Also, can I use a completely pre-made robot (like one where no building is required? Thanks for the help!
Here are some answers:
- The Rules can be downloaded from the National website (
https://www.soinc.org/rules-2024). But I'm guessing you have a copy of the rules. If you a question about a rule, then please post a question for that rule. This group would be happy to provide some help.
- As for the "one file", there is an FAQ (
https://www.soinc.org/rule-6ci-states-s ... an-be-made) that explains its a single program and not a single file. Meaning your robot program can include multiple source code files.
- A "completely pre-made robot" would depend on a few items. The rules require the student(s) to build a robot. If the robot was shipped as parts and assembled by the students, then the student(s) built the robot. If the robot is complete out-of-box, then this becomes difficult. If a robot is modified by the student(s), then the student(s) built the robot submitted. This is similar to when a device is re-used from a previous year. The students need to modify the old device to match the current rules. Using a device that was not built or modified by the students, would be seen as a violation. I have given teams this penalty before. [Hint: There is a rule (3.e) that will require a modification to 99.9% of all pre-built robots]
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: November 1st, 2023, 2:08 pm
by onshape
Hi. I'm doing this event this year as a filler. Considering that I'm the one on my team least interested in robots (only did it to help our team), does anyone have a breakdown on strategy, how to even program my robot/get it to work, and how you even "do robots"? The closest thing I have come to "robots" is nanobots and bee bots from elementary school, which is saying something (like I don't even know where to start, and can't comprehend the simple robot tour wiki page lol). It sounds like a simple robot event, so I want to do it as well as possible.
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: November 9th, 2023, 10:24 pm
by kamprath
onshape wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 2:08 pm
Hi. I'm doing this event this year as a filler. Considering that I'm the one on my team least interested in robots (only did it to help our team), does anyone have a breakdown on strategy, how to even program my robot/get it to work, and how you even "do robots"? The closest thing I have come to "robots" is nanobots and bee bots from elementary school, which is saying something (like I don't even know where to start, and can't comprehend the simple robot tour wiki page lol). It sounds like a simple robot event, so I want to do it as well as possible.
The Robot Tour event is requires your robot to do two things: go in a straight line for a specific distance, and turn a specific number of degrees. Once you get your robot to be able to do those two things really well, navigating the course is just sequencing a series of straight lines and turns together. Now this may sound easy, but it can be incredibly hard, especially if you have little experience with programming. You need to do things from calibrating your motors (if you have more than one motor, they are not going to turn at the same rate and that will make your robot not go straight) to using various sensors to understand your robot's actual motion versus the theoretical motion (you wheels turn 2.5 times, but did the robot go 2.5 times the wheel circumference?) to even ensuring your robot is physically aligned (if your wheels don't point in the same precise direction, the robot will not move straight). Your best approach is to methodically find your robot's biggest sources of error, and then work to reduce them, and iterate on to the next biggest source of error.
Good luck!
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: November 10th, 2023, 5:30 am
by onshape
kamprath wrote: ↑November 9th, 2023, 10:24 pm
The Robot Tour event is requires your robot to do two things: go in a straight line for a specific distance, and turn a specific number of degrees. Once you get your robot to be able to do those two things really well, navigating the course is just sequencing a series of straight lines and turns together. Now this may sound easy, but it can be incredibly hard, especially if you have little experience with programming. You need to do things from calibrating your motors (if you have more than one motor, they are not going to turn at the same rate and that will make your robot not go straight) to using various sensors to understand your robot's actual motion versus the theoretical motion (you wheels turn 2.5 times, but did the robot go 2.5 times the wheel circumference?) to even ensuring your robot is physically aligned (if your wheels don't point in the same precise direction, the robot will not move straight). Your best approach is to methodically find your robot's biggest sources of error, and then work to reduce them, and iterate on to the next biggest source of error.
Good luck!
Thank you for the advice!
I do have a little bit of experience with Arduino and CircuitPython (just not robots), do you think that would help?
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: November 11th, 2023, 3:18 pm
by coach05
brian9640 wrote: ↑September 12th, 2023, 11:39 am
Robot Tour's rules are not limiting and are open on the type of robot. There are just a few items required:
- Size is less than 30cm by 30cm of any height. Larger robots will have a disadvantage in navigating the track. So smaller is better.
- Energy must come from 6 or less AA or AAA batteries. This will cause the largest number of issues at tournaments. Many robot kits come with lithium batteries which is NOT allowed. Teams have purchased kits with the lithium batteries but replaced these batteries with AA batteries before the tournament.
- Robot is NOT remoted controlled. A lot of robot kits come with an optional remote controller to drive the robots. These kits are valid PROVIDED the remote controller is not used and the students can show the robot is executing their robot program.
As for a recommended robot kit, that is a difficult one because it depends on the students' knowledge and the budget available. What I can do is provide a recommendation on a style of robot. The website
https://topfinishkits.com/index.php/robots provides an excellent example of a robot for this event. This website does NOT sell robot kits. They only provide information that teams can use to build their own device. This is information can be used to build your own robot or used to modify purchased robot kits. Or a team can purchase a VEX kit for a higher cost. A LEGO or VEX could be easier to assembly and program but will not mean better performance. The students' program could have a larger impact than the hardware.
One warning about TopFinishKits.com, some their information is not complete. The information provided is a very good starting point and not a step by step guide. For example, their sample robot code is an excellent starting program. But the students need to improve and tune the program to achieve good results. My students have achieved excellent results with TopFinishKits.com's robot after making improvements.
Any recommendations on a motor for this kit. We can't find a TS-25GA270H-45
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: November 12th, 2023, 4:12 pm
by brian9640
Any recommendations on a motor for this kit. We can't find a TS-25GA270H-45
The link below from Amazon is the same as the TS-25GA270H-45 motor. This item on Amazon has several gear ratio options. The 130 RPM motor has the 45 to 1 gearbox.
https://a.co/d/iQkk1mQ
Re: Robot Tour C
Posted: November 12th, 2023, 6:12 pm
by bobbbbb
brian9640 wrote: ↑November 12th, 2023, 4:12 pm
Any recommendations on a motor for this kit. We can't find a TS-25GA270H-45
The link below from Amazon is the same as the TS-25GA270H-45 motor. This item on Amazon has several gear ratio options. The 130 RPM motor has the 45 to 1 gearbox.
https://a.co/d/iQkk1mQ
First off, thanks for all of your contributions to this thread, it has helped immensely.
However, I do have a few questions. One, the motor you linked seems great, but it is much higher priced than others, especially once factoring in that you need at least 2, one for each wheel. Is there any real advantage over the "yellow" motors that you find on kits, i.e. the ones with external encoders that you said make 20 or so pulses per rotation? I understand that it is more precise, but how much better is 300 than 20? Is there any speed difference?
Also, from my understanding, the ultrasonic sensor has a limited viewing angle - is it possible/beneficial to install multiple sensors on the topfinishkit robot without any hardware modifications, except for printable (I have a printer and some CAD knowledge, so I can figure out mounting), in terms of connecting electronically to the arduino.
Finally, for the software. I have very limited knowledge in arduino, but plenty in object-oriented languages in general, so I want to try to understand to see how tricky it will be. For the robot to function autonomously, I think there's two possible ways, so which one is better (or is it even allowed?):
1) looking at the track and programming a path beforehand (but is 10 minutes enough, and how would you program if you can't even test it?)
2) go straight forward and turn with obstacle avoidance until the end is reached (but how would you get to the gate zone, or make sure not to go backwards?)
unless I am misunderstanding somehow?
Sorry for this being so long, I'm just very inexperienced when it comes to this kind of thing