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hozeng wrote:Here is the diagram top down view. In our system, the ball landed on receiving track then turned into ramp, where it slowed down. we have other objects on the ramp (not shown on the diagram) to let the ball move very slowly on the ramp until it passed the finish line. Receiving track and the ramp are not on the same level of height. The receiving track is about 5 cm higher than the highest point on the ramp.

It feels like an error on the judge part. It is truly a measurement of the horizontal span the marble travels in air from the time it left to where it landed irrespective of where the next ramp is. Again, that is my interpretation and judges rule

Like most of people read this post, I also feel the measurement was not correct. Everyone makes mistake however willingness to admit error is key in engineering and science research. I feel very sorry for the two hard working kids who I worked with... not because the score they got but the fact that none of adults admitted a simple error which is against common sense.

This measurement makes no sense. One thing you can do is make the gap smaller (like the minimum, which is 5 cm), then make the landing ramp go across the diagonal of the coaster, giving you technically ~84 cm of gap(considering that the judges are measuring gap from that starting point to the ramp). This would get you 84*5 = 420 jump score + whatever time score you have. Im guessing about 590 pts. Tell me if I'm interpreting your diagram wrong.

That was the point of them referring to the gap measurement as "horizontal". You should be credited 5 cm for your gap if you do that.

I'm still confused about from where the END of the gap measurement should be.

https://sketch.io/render/sk-27aa4334c8b ... df5a9.jpeg

Will the point be measured horizontally from C to A to get score y,
or from C to B to get score x?

My understanding is C to A. Please clarify.

shrewdPanther46 wrote:That was the point of them referring to the gap measurement as "horizontal". You should be credited 5 cm for your gap if you do that.

I'm still confused about from where the END of the gap measurement should be.

https://sketch.io/render/sk-27aa4334c8b ... df5a9.jpeg

Will the point be measured horizontally from C to A to get score y,
or from C to B to get score x?

My understanding is C to A. Please clarify.

C to A to get score y. That is my understanding.

So, you would only get 5 cm gap bonus for this gap then because some part of the track is underneath the "gap zone" that is closer than the endpoint?
https://sketch.io/render/sk-b3d219148a0 ... 2c3a2.jpeg

makes no sense at all that means you would have to have nothing in the space under your gaps if you want them to count fully.

hozeng wrote:Our system was designed for a max jump. We have a short receiving track (>5 cm according the rule) followed by a turn then connected to a ramp with the finish line mark. The horizontal distance between the jump point and land point on the receiving track is about 50cm. In the regional competition, our ball jumped over the gap as designed, however the gap was measured from the jump point to the RAMP!!! That was measured as 20 cm. The explanation from the event leader was

"The rules state that they should have measured from the jump point to the front edge of the ramp but that is also assuming that the ramp is on the same plane of where the originating gap was."

This is another example where rules can be misread and taken so literally that it misses the intent of the rules. In my opinion,

(1) When they speak of plane, they might be speaking of the horizontal measurement of the gap: that is, the measurement must be on the same plane, not done diagonally.
(2) Measuring the gap as they did to the front edge of the ramp might be the closest part of the track, but that was not where the ball landed and it did not travel from that direction up the ramp! Part of the rules for a gap bonus mentions direction of travel. They measured opposite the direction of travel, rather than in the direction of travel.
(3) Rule writing is obviously difficult and this shows it is impossible to foresee all possible interpretations. I really don't see how the rules could be made any plainer on this point, but perhaps a clarifying statement could be added, such as, "the measurement being in the same direction of travel as the vehicle." Best wishes.

kylg wrote:So, you would only get 5 cm gap bonus for this gap then because some part of the track is underneath the "gap zone" that is closer than the endpoint?
https://sketch.io/render/sk-b3d219148a0 ... 2c3a2.jpeg

makes no sense at all that means you would have to have nothing in the space under your gaps if you want them to count fully.

I'm just starting to work on this event so that I can help mentor some middle school students on my team. IMO, that actually does make sense. The point is to discourage teams from having safety measures for their jumps - if you have something below the jump, your jump could fail but still have the vehicle land on a different part of the track.

Correction: No, that's stupid. It's talking about the part of the track that the vehicle lands on, so it should be referencing that specific part of the track. The reason it's based on the track is so that competitors can't have inconsistent jumps - but they should still just measure that one jump. My bad.