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I’d be pretty mad tbh. I thought about this hypothetical tower and it seems so wrong. It feels like something you can do, but you shouldn’t.

AnonymousStudier wrote:To be really fair, all this "hypothetical tower" stuff is pointless and really annoying.

Imagine going to nats, having a legit (not "hypothetical") tower weighing 4 grams and you're confident it'll hold full weight. That's 3750 efficiency.

But then this random guy from this random school you haven't heard from comes along. it's a 1.3 gram tower, only holding the bucket and the loading block. It gets the bonus.

Results come out. The team is from some REALLY sketchy school that you haven't even heard of. They get 1st place, and you get second. You're triggered. You think, "How the heck did this happen???"

Then the real results come out with all the weights and the checklists and stuff of all the teams. You realize that they "cheated".

How mad would you be?

No one cheated, they just made a better tower. Building a 1.3 gram tower to spec already takes a lot of skill.

Unome wrote:

AnonymousStudier wrote:To be really fair, all this "hypothetical tower" stuff is pointless and really annoying.

Imagine going to nats, having a legit (not "hypothetical") tower weighing 4 grams and you're confident it'll hold full weight. That's 3750 efficiency.

But then this random guy from this random school you haven't heard from comes along. it's a 1.3 gram tower, only holding the bucket and the loading block. It gets the bonus.

Results come out. The team is from some REALLY sketchy school that you haven't even heard of. They get 1st place, and you get second. You're triggered. You think, "How the heck did this happen???"

Then the real results come out with all the weights and the checklists and stuff of all the teams. You realize that they "cheated".

How mad would you be?

No one cheated, they just made a better tower. Building a 1.3 gram tower to spec already takes a lot of skill.

This...trying to build a light tower this weekend and it's hard...the wood is extremely fragile and I have already broken a couple pieces with my fingers

this discussion is available on the internet...most nats teams have heard of these forums..it's not cheating if it's announced

kinghong1970 wrote:

tHeWeY69 wrote:I just made a 1.01 gram tower that holds around 800-1000 grams and gets the base bonus. It is a very simple design that takes about 25-45 minutes to build so I made about 6. I will sell they design for $35 and the tower for $70.

reported.

you're commercializing on this? aren't you ashamed?

First question, where is the post you're quoting, I don't see it anywhere on the board....??

Then on following posts concerning cheating/unfairness:

If a tower - any tower - follows/meets 'the rules' (the specific event rules, and relevent general rules and guidelines, including 'spirit of the rules' rule), then it is not cheating, nor is it unfair. That's just how rules-based competitions are.....

On that basis, (assuming the quoted post, and the person posting it is real, and what they're saying is real, buying a completed tower from this person would obviously be against the rules (neither designed nor built by the student).

Paying for "the design" gets us into what is, oh, let's call it a grey area. There's been discussion on multiple events where commercial 'kits' are available - Wright Stuff, Helicopters, Roller Coaster, Mousetrap Vehicle all come to mind. It seems clear that using the general design.... incorporated in such kits is being done, and being allowed. That suggests buying/using the design we're discussion would be considered legal. There's been a range of perspectives/opinions on the 'legality' of buying a kit and building a device with parts provided and instructions/templates, etc provided, but that's not what we're talking about here....

An obvious question for anyone considering this is what you would get if you bought "the design" for this tower (again, assuming it is real). Basic shape/dimensions is driven/constrained by the rules. Meaningful 'design' elements would include wood size, density/strength (for legs and bracing), bracing configuration and bracing intervals. Without all these elements, you only have a .....design concept. With info already posted on this forum, you have all the info needed to do your own design concept for an "ultra-light: tower approach.....

Balsa Man wrote:

kinghong1970 wrote:

tHeWeY69 wrote:I just made a 1.01 gram tower that holds around 800-1000 grams and gets the base bonus. It is a very simple design that takes about 25-45 minutes to build so I made about 6. I will sell they design for $35 and the tower for $70.

reported.

you're commercializing on this? aren't you ashamed?

First question, where is the post you're quoting, I don't see it anywhere on the board....??

Len, I normally don't quote spams but it just bugged me the wrong way so i quoted it and reported to the admins.
they have since removed the post.

AnonymousStudier wrote:To be really fair, all this "hypothetical tower" stuff is pointless and really annoying.

Imagine going to nats, having a legit (not "hypothetical") tower weighing 4 grams and you're confident it'll hold full weight. That's 3750 efficiency.

But then this random guy from this random school you haven't heard from comes along. it's a 1.3 gram tower, only holding the bucket and the loading block. It gets the bonus.

Results come out. The team is from some REALLY sketchy school that you haven't even heard of. They get 1st place, and you get second. You're triggered. You think, "How the heck did this happen???"

Then the real results come out with all the weights and the checklists and stuff of all the teams. You realize that they "cheated".

How mad would you be?

So be it. If that's really the case, I'm sure the hundreds of views on this post have definitely got some people researching/attempting this idea. If this idea were to work, I'm sure a handful of people already have this going. And now we know that this is something people are looking into. I personally had this idea since the beginning, spent a good month trying. Highest I hit was just above 2k. I know some loading blocks are made of wood, but ours is made of steel, weighing .4kg. Given that, rules specify "loading block assembly" as block+chain. You are required to hold loading block assembly. Our chain is rather light, weighing in about .2kg. I'm guessing worst case scenario, steel block, thick chain, .7 kg. Not worth it. If there is a wood block you can bring that weight down to .1kg, and potentially that may be something to go for. Point is, prepare for the worst. So at nationals, if someone wins with this design, oh well. Its already being discussed, I'm sure someone already made this work (given a light loading block assembly). Is it worth to go for? You decide.

kinghong1970 wrote:

Balsa Man wrote:

kinghong1970 wrote:
reported.

you're commercializing on this? aren't you ashamed?

First question, where is the post you're quoting, I don't see it anywhere on the board....??

Len, I normally don't quote spams but it just bugged me the wrong way so i quoted it and reported to the admins.
they have since removed the post.

Ah, understand. Thanks for the clarification. I have to say I would have reacted the same way you did. Offering to sell completed tower; sleazy, blatantly illegal.