Protectiveness over Resources

[kenniky]

Last year our school only went to MIT and we traded into a grand total of 54 different invitational sets. You just need to be proactive with trading and approach as many people as possible.

[EastStroudsburg13]

If you truly want to go far and get something that requires a ton of work, you need to start looking out for your self. For example, I put in 20 hours over the course of 5 days, as fast as I could go, on my respiratory system notes of Anatomy. I am not going to give those away for nothing. That means all the work I put in is useless. I am more than happy to help someone out with something specific, but if you want a true treasure, at least come to the table with SOMETHING.

In fairness, tests and notes are different beasts. While some people on this site have made their notes available, it's generally after they compete. Contributions to the wiki will generally represent a basic form of a user's notes, but not necessarily the full extent. However, if a user wants to make their notes public, we will not discourage that, as long as they are aware that there is no expectation of something in return.

Of course, trying to trade notes is going to be a difficult task, because while tests are roughly one-for-one, notes are hard to compare. I think it's an interesting concept, and although we're not going to drive a note exchange from a site perspective, you are welcome to try to do so on your own (as long as event threads don't get clogged with exchange requests, as that is not their purpose).

Also one final point I just thought of (yeah I know I said I wasn't gonna make long replies), do you think users would be more likely to submit tests if the process was a little easier? Currently you have to first upload the files to the wiki, and then link them from the Test Exchange page, which is not too bad for someone who has done it before, but I can see it being daunting to a first-timer. Also, any ideas for how to make this process easier are welcome, though no concrete promises about implementation will be made (at least here).

[sciduck]

Also one final point I just thought of (yeah I know I said I wasn't gonna make long replies), do you think users would be more likely to submit tests if the process was a little easier? Currently you have to first upload the files to the wiki, and then link them from the Test Exchange page, which is not too bad for someone who has done it before, but I can see it being daunting to a first-timer. Also, any ideas for how to make this process easier are welcome, though no concrete promises about implementation will be made (at least here).

Yes. It would be so nice to just drop a link or folder somewhere. Something as easy as uploading to a public google drive would be nice.

[WhatScience?]

Also one final point I just thought of (yeah I know I said I wasn't gonna make long replies), do you think users would be more likely to submit tests if the process was a little easier? Currently you have to first upload the files to the wiki, and then link them from the Test Exchange page, which is not too bad for someone who has done it before, but I can see it being daunting to a first-timer. Also, any ideas for how to make this process easier are welcome, though no concrete promises about implementation will be made (at least here).

Yes. It would be so nice to just drop a link or folder somewhere. Something as easy as uploading to a public google drive would be nice.

I definitely agree with this.

[syo_astro]

My personal take below. Also, I highly agree about the test exchange, right now it's a bit confusing (both the uploading and that all the past tests are on the wiki)

1) Outside of your team (my biggest issue, probably said already): Some teams cannot access fb (middle schools) or are not be aware of it (new teams). Some teams also have a barrier to entry, and this isn't going away by telling them "work harder". This is discouraging to teams trying to find practice or that have bad coaching.

Note: A personal gripe. You have 20 - 50 test sets...great? I don't see the relevance. Yes, we all know it's possible to get a lot of tests...Not everyone can. People who say "I only used one invite" or "just make tests yourself" should think about this. Even having those tests, so what (my next point)?

2) Internal to team (less of an issue, but I think it's relevant): There will be people (new seniors, freshmen, middle schoolers, people without infinite time) who cannot spend all their time taking 15-20 tests and studying. Scioly emphasizes the basics as I see it, and you can't always get that just from tests. Don't get me wrong, some leaders / coaches / etc know how to distribute tests and work with people and I know that having lots of tests means finding new/more useful tests. But there will be some who excuse general studying in favor of practice tests, which is a mistake.

Summary: Just trying to get people thinking about the whole helping others / learning parts of scioly as opposed to the competition part, which most already understand or maybe understand better than me.

[whythelongface]

I will confess it's the reason I am so reluctant to edit the "Microbe Mission Disease List" wiki page, even though it definitely needs a lot more work. I just feel like I'm putting my notes onto the wiki, and again, with the competition, and the wiki being a starting place for both new people and people who don't want to really study the event, this cuts both ways.

[Froggie]

Please remember that this is my opinion only.

There are four types of Sciolyans in this world:
Type 1: The kind that focuses only on placing/doing well of tournaments.
Type 2: The kind that focuses on helping others, becoming friends with other people, and not too much on placing, just learning.
Type 3: Basically Type 2 but still places a lot.
Type 4: The kind that have no idea what they are doing (me!).

To be honest I'm not really reading everything on here (because they're too long, sorry), but from what I gather Type 3 is what everyone wants to be. (Obviously)

I understand Type 1's feelings. I mean, it feels good to place! And I'll admit that people can be hesitant about sharing resources for reasons said in this topic.

Conclusion: Keep this in mind, and try not to be Type 4.
Feel free to add on/argue about this.

[Random Human]

Hi is anyone open to creating a test exchange outside of scioly.org. Have approval from East...? A forum based website like reddit where people can trade with each other on home made test.
See ideas here
viewtopic.php?f=25&p=320822#p320822

Thanks

[syo_astro]

...the wiki being a starting place for both new people and people who don't want to really study the event, this cuts both ways.

Nobody is forcing you or trying to make you feel bad about not editing the wiki (I think that's what you're saying?). But I disagree with your reasoning. So what if you help one or two "people that don't really want to study". The wiki doesn't give all the answers, and people who use it for that won't get far. On the other hand, new teams / members suffer far greater if the wiki isn't updated. So no, it doesn't cut both ways. We should be helping people new, old, whatever not have to study all alone or give up as a result.

Competitive people I knew thought it's arrogant to share info. Or it leads to weakness. But everyone needs help in one form or another.

Froggie:
Yes, it is your opinion, but I'd like to discuss it;). Categorizing people has advantages, but...people are complicated and categorizing doesn't account for that. Also, there's a difference between intent (e.g. I never wanted to be competitive and only wanted to help) and action (e.g. I ended up being helpful but also being competitive for medals). There's of course reasons for that (e.g. I cared about my team at the time and...should've balanced time better >.<).

Conclusion: Keep this in mind, and try not to be Type 4.

I also see no problem with being someone who is new. Being new means you're still learning and figuring things out. We were all there once, and one should be welcoming to people on the newer side of things! Probably I misunderstand what you mean (?).

Random Human

Have approval from East...?

This is the kind of thing that started this thread. Please try to keep relevant. If you read East's post, you should respect that you should not be posting messages like that. There is already this forum (where we stand with supporting open test exchanges) and facebook (where I assume most test exchanges are in more closed groups).

[Unome]

It would be nice if more people would continue to edit the wiki (or, start editing) once they graduate. For example, despite having many very skilled builders on the forums, including several graduates, the build wikis remain rather unhelpful relative to most of the study events (with the exception of Scrambler and Hovercraft).