Robot Arm C

[shakedown]

It is my understanding that they were tiered. They came in 18th place for Robot Arm. This didn't have a material impact on the team either.

My description was not accurate enough for someone that didn't see it to know what happened. The dispenser didn't do anything on it's own. Here was their plan:

1 - They placed the dispenser in the competition area with the arm.
2 - They picked up the pennies with the arm and dropped them into the dispenser,
3 - They picked it up the dispenser with the arm and moved it around the target area and vibrated the pennies out.

Without being connected to the arm the dispenser had no ability to drop a penny. The dispenser couldn't move without the arm.

I thought this was more complex for them to do then building a cylinder that opens to grab the pennies and either eject or vibrate them out one stack at a time. The arm needed to be able to lift 50 pennies at once and it took them a long time and may attempts to come up with a working dispenser.

It is late in the season but a clarification would be nice. I will submit a request. I appreciate the discussion about the intent of the rules. In my opinion the students need to rely on what the actual rules and any subsequent clarifications say.

[colaboy82]

I am just wondering what would a competitive score at the state level be?

[maxxxxx]

I am just wondering what would a competitive score at the state level be?

I'm guessing medals in competitive states will be a score of 400+, with most 1st places somewhere around 550-600.

[parasaurolophus]

I had a question about the rules and haven’t been able to find an answer. A few event supervisors at past invitationals I have been to were also a bit unsure about this part of the rules.

Our robot base fits in the 25 x 25 x 100 cm space; however, we have some wires that come out of the 25 x 25 cm space and drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the Competition Area as the arm moves. We believe that this is okay, due to this section of the rules:

3. a. The Arm(s) may be attached to a Base. In the ready-to-run position, all parts (except the control box(es), separate power supplies, and their connections) must fit inside an imaginary 25.0 cm x 25.0 cm x 100.0 cm high rectangular prism.

We interpret “the connections” as the wires that come from the arm to the micro controller. So, are the wires allowed to drift outside of the 25 x 25 cm area, and into the Competition Area?

Regionals is tomorrow lol pls help.

[laidlawe18]

I had a question about the rules and haven’t been able to find an answer. A few event supervisors at past invitationals I have been to were also a bit unsure about this part of the rules.

Our robot base fits in the 25 x 25 x 100 cm space; however, we have some wires that come out of the 25 x 25 cm space and drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the Competition Area as the arm moves. We believe that this is okay, due to this section of the rules:

3. a. The Arm(s) may be attached to a Base. In the ready-to-run position, all parts (except the control box(es), separate power supplies, and their connections) must fit inside an imaginary 25.0 cm x 25.0 cm x 100.0 cm high rectangular prism.

We interpret “the connections” as the wires that come from the arm to the micro controller. So, are the wires allowed to drift outside of the 25 x 25 cm area, and into the Competition Area?

Regionals is tomorrow lol pls help.

The usual note about nothing on the forums being official applies here.

I'm a little bit confused about they "drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the competition area as the arm moves." As long as the base of your arm isn't moving outside of the device square and the wires don't touch any pennies, you should be fine. If your wires hit the pennies or drag the base outside of the device square, that would immediately end the run.

[parasaurolophus]

I had a question about the rules and haven’t been able to find an answer. A few event supervisors at past invitationals I have been to were also a bit unsure about this part of the rules.

Our robot base fits in the 25 x 25 x 100 cm space; however, we have some wires that come out of the 25 x 25 cm space and drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the Competition Area as the arm moves. We believe that this is okay, due to this section of the rules:

3. a. The Arm(s) may be attached to a Base. In the ready-to-run position, all parts (except the control box(es), separate power supplies, and their connections) must fit inside an imaginary 25.0 cm x 25.0 cm x 100.0 cm high rectangular prism.

We interpret “the connections” as the wires that come from the arm to the micro controller. So, are the wires allowed to drift outside of the 25 x 25 cm area, and into the Competition Area?

Regionals is tomorrow lol pls help.

The usual note about nothing on the forums being official applies here.

I'm a little bit confused about they "drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the competition area as the arm moves." As long as the base of your arm isn't moving outside of the device square and the wires don't touch any pennies, you should be fine. If your wires hit the pennies or drag the base outside of the device square, that would immediately end the run.

"drag around the box and into the competition area" means just that, the wires are partially in the competition area. The base never moves out of the 25 x 25 cm square and the wires are far from any pennies.

I would think that it's fine by this section of the rules....but let's say someone put their control box or batteries on the competition area, which are also listed in parenthesis with the "connections." I would think that it wouldn't be acceptable....but this part of the rules makes it sounds like they can go anywhere. It's just very confusing and stressful and I would like a clear answer. We emailed the event coordinator a few days ago with no response.

[windu34]

I had a question about the rules and haven’t been able to find an answer. A few event supervisors at past invitationals I have been to were also a bit unsure about this part of the rules.

Our robot base fits in the 25 x 25 x 100 cm space; however, we have some wires that come out of the 25 x 25 cm space and drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the Competition Area as the arm moves. We believe that this is okay, due to this section of the rules:

3. a. The Arm(s) may be attached to a Base. In the ready-to-run position, all parts (except the control box(es), separate power supplies, and their connections) must fit inside an imaginary 25.0 cm x 25.0 cm x 100.0 cm high rectangular prism.

We interpret “the connections” as the wires that come from the arm to the micro controller. So, are the wires allowed to drift outside of the 25 x 25 cm area, and into the Competition Area?

Regionals is tomorrow lol pls help.

The usual note about nothing on the forums being official applies here.

I'm a little bit confused about they "drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the competition area as the arm moves." As long as the base of your arm isn't moving outside of the device square and the wires don't touch any pennies, you should be fine. If your wires hit the pennies or drag the base outside of the device square, that would immediately end the run.

"drag around the box and into the competition area" means just that, the wires are partially in the competition area. The base never moves out of the 25 x 25 cm square and the wires are far from any pennies.

I would think that it's fine by this section of the rules....but let's say someone put their control box or batteries on the competition area, which are also listed in parenthesis with the "connections." I would think that it wouldn't be acceptable....but this part of the rules makes it sounds like they can go anywhere. It's just very confusing and stressful and I would like a clear answer. We emailed the event coordinator a few days ago with no response.

I believe the correct interpretation is that the "connection" exemtion is referring only to the connections between the separate power supplies/control boxes and the base of the robot. Any connections between motors/servos and the base of the arm must be within the competition area. This is how it was interpreted at nationals last year anyway

[parasaurolophus]

The usual note about nothing on the forums being official applies here.

I'm a little bit confused about they "drag around the 25 x 25 cm box and into the competition area as the arm moves." As long as the base of your arm isn't moving outside of the device square and the wires don't touch any pennies, you should be fine. If your wires hit the pennies or drag the base outside of the device square, that would immediately end the run.

"drag around the box and into the competition area" means just that, the wires are partially in the competition area. The base never moves out of the 25 x 25 cm square and the wires are far from any pennies.

I would think that it's fine by this section of the rules....but let's say someone put their control box or batteries on the competition area, which are also listed in parenthesis with the "connections." I would think that it wouldn't be acceptable....but this part of the rules makes it sounds like they can go anywhere. It's just very confusing and stressful and I would like a clear answer. We emailed the event coordinator a few days ago with no response.

I believe the correct interpretation is that the "connection" exemtion is referring only to the connections between the separate power supplies/control boxes and the base of the robot. Any connections between motors/servos and the base of the arm must be within the competition area. This is how it was interpreted at nationals last year anyway

That's not exactly what I'm asking here. Our connections in question here are between the base of the robot and the control boxes. I'm asking if they can touch the surface of the Competition Area. They tend to drag on the side closest to the loner stack of pennies in the back corner. They never interfere with the run.

[jander14indoor]

Not official of course.
The rules seem pretty clear, but I think you are looking at the wrong one. Yes that one says the connections from the robot to the controllers (assuming hard connections) outside the device square don't have to be fully in the device square and aren't part of the 25 by25 by 100 cm measurement.
The more relevant one in this case would be the rule about time stops. One of the sub-paragraphs seems to be pretty clearly exclude from the connections from the robot in the device square to the external controllers from stopping time. Only the base that touches the device square at the start stops the time if it leaves. They would probably (I'd have to see in person to be definitive, part of why these comments aren't official) stop the time if they moved pennies around or the arm around because you were for example pulling on them.
Now if you wires are hanging from the arm itself connecting to a servo at an elbow or wrist joint, could you argue (politely and knowledgeably) that they were end effectors? Alternatively, might it be better to wire tie the loose wires to the arm so they don't flop?
Here's another alternative. Have the connector wires from the robot to the controller exit at the center rear of the device square and tied firmly to the base there. Then they shouldn't even be a question.
Final comment, in general, when I see robots with loose wires flopping I don't see good scores. Its a bad engineering practice in general to not control where wires are flopping. Too easy to damage or interfere with intended function. Perhaps you should consider modifying your wires so they don't move around so much or so inconsistently.
I recently built a 3-D printer from a kit. At one point the wires looked like a spaghetti mess. Then the instructions started talking about tieing down wires here, wrapping them together with spiral wrap there. Etc. By the time it was done, there were two loose bundles wrapped with spiral wrap and stiffened by thick plastic filament that had been routed and shaped to allow the motor controls for the x axis and extruder to move, but still stay out of the way of function. Very neat at the end.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[parasaurolophus]

Not official of course.
The rules seem pretty clear, but I think you are looking at the wrong one. Yes that one says the connections from the robot to the controllers (assuming hard connections) outside the device square don't have to be fully in the device square and aren't part of the 25 by25 by 100 cm measurement.
The more relevant one in this case would be the rule about time stops. One of the sub-paragraphs seems to be pretty clearly exclude from the connections from the robot in the device square to the external controllers from stopping time. Only the base that touches the device square at the start stops the time if it leaves. They would probably (I'd have to see in person to be definitive, part of why these comments aren't official) stop the time if they moved pennies around or the arm around because you were for example pulling on them.
Now if you wires are hanging from the arm itself connecting to a servo at an elbow or wrist joint, could you argue (politely and knowledgeably) that they were end effectors? Alternatively, might it be better to wire tie the loose wires to the arm so they don't flop?
Here's another alternative. Have the connector wires from the robot to the controller exit at the center rear of the device square and tied firmly to the base there. Then they shouldn't even be a question.
Final comment, in general, when I see robots with loose wires flopping I don't see good scores. Its a bad engineering practice in general to not control where wires are flopping. Too easy to damage or interfere with intended function. Perhaps you should consider modifying your wires so they don't move around so much or so inconsistently.
I recently built a 3-D printer from a kit. At one point the wires looked like a spaghetti mess. Then the instructions started talking about tieing down wires here, wrapping them together with spiral wrap there. Etc. By the time it was done, there were two loose bundles wrapped with spiral wrap and stiffened by thick plastic filament that had been routed and shaped to allow the motor controls for the x axis and extruder to move, but still stay out of the way of function. Very neat at the end.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

Thank you for the comprehensive response. The wires don't really flip all over the place, they just kind of shift around an inch or two as the arm moves around the Comp. Area. They never get close to pennies.

Also, side note, you have seen our robot at a competition this year and though it's an ugly mess, we did very well and you liked it!!!!

Anyway, we thoroughly read the rules and we are pretty confident that what we are doing is okay since the rules exclude connections leaving the square base from stopping the run. We are going to go with it and bring the rules with us to make our case if the ES happens to have ambiguity.

In the future we will clean it up.

Please let me know if you have any other thoughts.