Mission Possible C

[Phys1cs]

burning is considered a chemical reaction, correct?

[PalladiumTurtle]

burning is considered a chemical reaction, correct?

Burning is a chemical reaction, yes.

[A Person]

What do you guys think about a rack and pinion time managing device? It's basically gears moving (powered by a motor). I thought we could adjust it to give us more or less time. However, in the rules, it states that all time adjusting tasks in the MP should be non-electrical at the start, middle, and end of that task. So would a rack and pinion get us DQ'ed?

Also, when scoring for time, if you go over the specified time, do you still get the points for "every second up to the time" and THEN get deductions for going over? Or is it JUST deductions?

That would be a DQ. Here's a link to a rule clarification, it's slightly different but works the same. http://www.soinc.org/node/1326

As for the timing points. From my understanding you get both sets of points, even if you go past. Once you get to the nationals level though the timing points are vital. You need every point you can get.

I have a slightly different timing device that I'm unsure of. Say I have a tank of water that has a plug, which releases water when a motor pulls the plug out. While the timer isn't reliant on the power, I am not sure.

[twisty14]

What do you guys think about a rack and pinion time managing device? It's basically gears moving (powered by a motor). I thought we could adjust it to give us more or less time. However, in the rules, it states that all time adjusting tasks in the MP should be non-electrical at the start, middle, and end of that task. So would a rack and pinion get us DQ'ed?

Also, when scoring for time, if you go over the specified time, do you still get the points for "every second up to the time" and THEN get deductions for going over? Or is it JUST deductions?

That would be a DQ. Here's a link to a rule clarification, it's slightly different but works the same. http://www.soinc.org/node/1326

As for the timing points. From my understanding you get both sets of points, even if you go past. Once you get to the nationals level though the timing points are vital. You need every point you can get.

I have a slightly different timing device that I'm unsure of. Say I have a tank of water that has a plug, which releases water when a motor pulls the plug out. While the timer isn't reliant on the power, I am not sure.

That timers fine. It's no being powered by electricity, it's only started by something that uses electricity. Basically a good test for whether or not your timer is legal, is if, while your timer is running, would removing all of the batteries in the machine make the timer stop, if it does then it's an illegal timer. If it doesn't you should be good to go.

[patil215]

I have a question about the timer in my device. The rules state:

All transfers take time, but any continuous action designed to take up time must not be electrical. In
addition, at State & National adjusting a transfer that utilizes electricity in any way (either at the
beginning, middle, or end of operation) intended to accomplish the ideal time is a violation.

My timer consists of a mechanical object that slowly turns and connects an electrical circuit when it is finished. To adjust the time, I change the amount that the mechanical object is adjusted. No electrical components of the transfer are adjusted.

I'm not sure if this could be considered illegal. I know that the purpose of the rule was to make sure no one was putting in a delay of electrical nature like a timer circuit (hence the only state and nationals part). However, the timer does do a mechanical to electrical transfer, but I do not adjust the electrical part of the transfer - the time is changed by simply winding the mechanical part different amounts.

What do you guys think?

[A Person]

I have a question about the timer in my device. The rules state:

All transfers take time, but any continuous action designed to take up time must not be electrical. In
addition, at State & National adjusting a transfer that utilizes electricity in any way (either at the
beginning, middle, or end of operation) intended to accomplish the ideal time is a violation.

My timer consists of a mechanical object that slowly turns and connects an electrical circuit when it is finished. To adjust the time, I change the amount that the mechanical object is adjusted. No electrical components of the transfer are adjusted.

I'm not sure if this could be considered illegal. I know that the purpose of the rule was to make sure no one was putting in a delay of electrical nature like a timer circuit (hence the only state and nationals part). However, the timer does do a mechanical to electrical transfer, but I do not adjust the electrical part of the transfer - the time is changed by simply winding the mechanical part different amounts.

What do you guys think?

If going by twisty's answer to mine, I would count it as legal. I think that if as long as all the batteries were gone and it was just mechanical, that is a good way to tell if it's electrical, according to Twisty14. However, how is the device turned? Last year, tons of teams were using a screw being turned by a motor, and that was almost boring to watch. I think that's what the writers were trying to prevent from occurring this year. Specifically, it was a wingnut on a screw with a motor turning it until it hit a microswitch, basically the principles of a battery buggy. I think using electricity as an end result would make things much easier, and hopefully I'm not wrong, as my own mission uses something of that nature.

[aahs_so]

I have a question about the timer in my device. The rules state:

All transfers take time, but any continuous action designed to take up time must not be electrical. In
addition, at State & National adjusting a transfer that utilizes electricity in any way (either at the
beginning, middle, or end of operation) intended to accomplish the ideal time is a violation.

My timer consists of a mechanical object that slowly turns and connects an electrical circuit when it is finished. To adjust the time, I change the amount that the mechanical object is adjusted. No electrical components of the transfer are adjusted.

I'm not sure if this could be considered illegal. I know that the purpose of the rule was to make sure no one was putting in a delay of electrical nature like a timer circuit (hence the only state and nationals part). However, the timer does do a mechanical to electrical transfer, but I do not adjust the electrical part of the transfer - the time is changed by simply winding the mechanical part different amounts.

What do you guys think?

If going by twisty's answer to mine, I would count it as legal. I think that if as long as all the batteries were gone and it was just mechanical, that is a good way to tell if it's electrical, according to Twisty14. However, how is the device turned? Last year, tons of teams were using a screw being turned by a motor, and that was almost boring to watch. I think that's what the writers were trying to prevent from occurring this year. Specifically, it was a wingnut on a screw with a motor turning it until it hit a microswitch, basically the principles of a battery buggy. I think using electricity as an end result would make things much easier, and hopefully I'm not wrong, as my own mission uses something of that nature.

The rules quoted above state that "adjusting a transfer that utilizes electricity in any way (either at the beginning, middle, or end of operation) intended to accomplish the ideal time is a violation". Our team interpreted that as meaning that electricity could not be used in any way to start the adjustable portion of the task or to sense its end. By this interpretation, your timer would be in violation. The key word for us was "utilizes". That makes it very broad and applicable to possibly even an EMS transfer.

[Cheese_Muffin_Man]

My team was confused about this portion of the rules as well. I can see the reason for the ambiguities, but I am leaning a bit more towards aahs_so. Any other thoughts?

[Robotica]

Now you have me worried about my designed time task, I have a spring wound (entirely mechanical) arm/device. When activated it moves an attached pre-lit electric lamp into position for an ems to thermal transfer. The task is triggered mechanically, the sequence goes mechanical to mechanical(spring mechanism) to ems to thermal.

The operation of moving the light into position is adjustable for time, it uses no electricity before during or at the end of the move, however it is moving, carrying an electric lamp or bulb. Does anyone see this as a possible violation?

Thanks

[aahs_so]

Does your time task "utilize" electricity in ANY WAY (my emphasis) at the end of the timer operation? I would guess based on your description that it does. Will the judges hold the same view? Not sure. But if you want to be safe, I would change it.