Mission Possible C

[jgensel]

What is meant by one action? I agree turning on a lightbulb would be one action, but wouldn't it heating up be another action, and then the light being released be a third action?

[Cheese_Muffin_Man]

The problem is, where do "off the shelf" items end?
Is a store-bought flashlight mechanical -> ems? I see one action occurring if a light bulb is only one action.

Mechanical? Wouldn't it be E to EM?

[olympiaddict]

I meant that the competitor bought this flashlight, and then the device will input mechanical by flipping the built-in switch, and then the flashlights inner transfers will output electromagnetic.
I see this as the same as the lightbulb- it's a store bought component which, under this interpretation, is ignoring transfers that go on inside.

[jgensel]

I meant that the competitor bought this flashlight, and then the device will input mechanical by flipping the built-in switch, and then the flashlights inner transfers will output electromagnetic.
I see this as the same as the lightbulb- it's a store bought component which, under this interpretation, is ignoring transfers that go on inside.

But because of the transfers on the inside is it really a "direct" transfer?

[olympiaddict]

Exactly my point, I'm suggesting that it is not a direct transfer.

[wlsguy]

I think the rules specify all transfers must be visible.
A light bulb transfers electricity to heat an element which emits visible light.
All the transfers are visible and therefore not subject to the "black box" interpretation.
Since these transfers always happen in this sequence, they are not parallel tasks.

So, why wouldn't this count as 2 transfers? I'm just looking for different opinions.
Thanks

[iwonder]

So heat and light are basically the same thing, just different frequncies, for the most part. Since a lightbulb produces both heat and light, at the same time, the rule that states that certain things are counted as how they're used applies, I.e use a lightbulb to trip a photocell and it's light, use it to light a match and it's heat. At least that's how I see it. The fact that there's heat involved in the transfer is irrelevant on twonaccounts, the one I just gave, and the idea that one action only counts for one transfer, so that the action of turning on a light only counts as to how it triggers the next thing (which I guess is repeating myself but not quite).

Of course, that's my interpretation and there's a half a billion others out there. I guess it's all up to the Chalker's to clarify or our own discression. Until then I really liked the contests where ES's would look over ETL's a few weeks in advance... Just saying

[olympiaddict]

1) saying heat and light are the same thing fundentally doesn't clear it up because, by the rules of this contest, they are not. Yeah it's a little sticky, but there's clearly seperate categories according to the rules. And in my understanding, you can object with high temperature (thermal energy) which emits IR radiation (EMS), so distinct categories are well defined. Correct me if I'm wrong.
2) the rule about one action is that one action may contribute to only one scoreable transfer, which means to me that you cannot receive points for two transfers in one action. I don't think there's been a good definition of what an action is, but this rule doesn't imply that you can ignore transfers like this and say the input and output forms (e and ems) are directly linked- it only states there can't be two scoreable transfers from one action, but it said nothing about nonscoreable transfers.

[wlsguy]

The statement about each action may contribute to only 1 scorable transfer suddenly dawned on me.
This seems to imply that whenever an action is started, any transfers that occur from that action are all together.

This would limit you to one transfer for the flashlight example (unless you can stop the light from being created as well as heat when you flip the switch) would limit batteries from counting twice (already covered under the visible action rule) and would probably make it easier on event supervisors overall. In such a series, the question would be, which transfer can I count?
A light bulb could be considered electrical to thermal to emp. At this point, as long as the task list shows the transfer and team uses the energy in the specific form to trigger the next action, I would allow it.

Again, just trying to get everyone's thoughts to help clarify the topic.

[jgensel]

But you would need to define what an action is. So technically when I pour the stuff into my box I can say that it is transferring to another form that is five steps down the line because the only "action" I had was pouring my stuff.
Also, it seems to me that everyone is considering an action something mechanical. If this is the case you would only be able to receive points for mechanical transfers and all other transfers would be impossible. I may be wrong though.