Unofficial Rankings, Division B

[ReBobville]

Strath Haven also puts the 9th graders from the high school on the middle school team.

[ckssv07]

Im pretty sure most teams that go to the same invites ad us are the same. Can anyone confirm?

[u287772]

Marie Murphy could beat Solon in 2011 (only 14 points higher than Solon) and 2012 if they would have used 9th graders from high school.

[u287772]

I'd like to place an objection:

I don't know, but Gelinas is a 7-9 junior high. Our sixth graders have never even heard of SciO, unless they have older siblings or friends. Our ninth graders are not competitive advantages, but teammates and deserving members of our school. Plus, in a 7-9 team, it's almost the same as a 6-8: The oldest kids still have the same number of years of competition in Division B.

DISCLAIMER: I love everyone, and I'm not fighting. Just stating my opinion

Solon Middle School is different from your school. Solon Middle School borrows ninth graders from Solon High School.

Even if that's why they do so well, there's nothing unfair about it at all.

Do you think it's fair to those 6-8 graders in the same team?
Do you think those 9th graders should compete in Division C if they are really good?
Why high school kids come back and compete with middle school kids? Medals?
Yes, rule says Division B (Gr: 6-9).

[fozendog]

Some schools are 7-9 so they also want to include 9th graders and this way there is no way that they could be caught in between two divisions.

[kentuckyfan1001]

Do you think it's fair to those 6-8 graders in the same team?
Do you think those 9th graders should compete in Division C if they are really good?
Why high school kids come back and compete with middle school kids? Medals?
Yes, rule says Division B (Gr: 6-9).

I've been relatively silent on this thread, but all I'll say is this: there is an agreement between our coaches that 9th graders can't compete in the high school. This is so that there is no conflict of interest involved. We do this because 9th graders are often good leaders and captains, because they see how leadership works from other high school students. Feel free to disagree, but not having 9th graders on C equally disadvantages our Div. C team as much as it helps our Div. B team. I'm sure New Trier would be unhappy if they lost members from their Northfield High school team to Marie Murphy. Likewise, SHS cannot use this 9th grade rule to their advantage. On top of this, it IS fair to the 6-8th graders; in fact, in years past, there have been 6th graders who have made the states team, so clearly they do have a chance to compete. A few 7th graders make it each year as well.

Furthermore, Solon has two middle schools, 5-6 (Orchard Middle) and 7-8 (Solon Middle School), so SMS would be only pulling from 2 grades if not allowed otherwise. Either way, the rules were in place just so that schools like Gelinas (7-9) would still let the junior high members compete. The 5 9th grader team limit was created for a good balance between allowing junior high schools to compete while preventing middle schools from being disadvantaged.

I don't understand why this is such a huge concern, but I appreciate hearing this from a different perspective. Until now, it never crossed my mind that other schools view having 9th graders as really unfair.

[CulturallyScientific]

The topic of 9th-graders going back to Division B is something that I feel very strongly about. Since I don't want to clog up this topic with my post, I've hidden it here:

My thoughts about 9th graders and Division B: (Click to Show Hidden Text)

I have to agree with kentuckyfan1001. This year, as a 9th grader, I went back to my middle school (6-8) where I've competed in since 7th grade; my coach was elated to have just three ninth graders come back (from a group of ten 8th-graders last year) to help out with the team, as this has rarely happened in the past at our school. While some people thought that this was unfair and assumed that as 9th graders, we would dominate everything, they were wrong. Last year, as an 8th grader, I received a gold medal at State; this year, I did not place gold in any of my events. 
In addition, when I tried out for a new event this year (contrary to popular belief, not all 9th graders in Division B have been "dominating in their events," they can pick up new ones too!), I was defeated by several middle school students, including a seventh and a sixth grader. This just shows that while high school students may be more experienced, they are just regular Division B competitors like everyone else. Being a ninth-grader and going back to a middle school isn't always easy, either; my coach still required each of the ninth graders to try out for the team, just like anyone else, and on top of that, most of us were Junior Coaches for a few events, so while we were older than the middle-schoolers, we also had greater responsibilities and greater shares of work to do. 
However, as older students, even though there was more work, we 9th-graders were also able to serve as role models for the younger students, and I think that it really makes a huge difference in helping the team. My coach could trust us with more complex and challenging tasks, and we took on several leadership roles in the team (one of us was Team Captain this year). Science Olympiad felt so much more rewarding this year because I wasn't just competing for myself, I was helping out my coach in the best way that I could by coming back to Division B and not just earning medals and points in events, but also by setting an example for younger students to follow.
If you are a graduating 8th grader and moving onto high school, and you are reading this post, I encourage you to go back to your middle school next year as a ninth grader and talk to your coach about trying out for your team, or to consider helping out with younger students or being a Junior Coach. This year, I also tried out for my local high school's SciOly team with hopes of being on the team for all four years of high school, but failed (miserably!) and chose to go back to Division B. At first I was devastated that my original dream of competing in Division C for four years was crushed; however, looking back now, at the end of the season after State, I think that it was one of the best decisions I've ever made, because I can't imagine my freshman year of high school right now without Division B Science Olympiad. Although I've wondered how things might have been different if I had made the high school team and didn't go back to Division B, I'm glad that I went back to help out this year because the experience has just been so much fun and different (in good ways!) from my two years competing in middle school and so much more fulfilling. 
With that being said, I think that it's completely fair to have the 9th-grader rule; 9th-graders are great students to have on a team and I wouldn't want the rule to change at all!

[u287772]

Do you think it's fair to those 6-8 graders in the same team?
Do you think those 9th graders should compete in Division C if they are really good?
Why high school kids come back and compete with middle school kids? Medals?
Yes, rule says Division B (Gr: 6-9).

I've been relatively silent on this thread, but all I'll say is this: there is an agreement between our coaches that 9th graders can't compete in the high school. This is so that there is no conflict of interest involved. We do this because 9th graders are often good leaders and captains, because they see how leadership works from other high school students. Feel free to disagree, but not having 9th graders on C equally disadvantages our Div. C team as much as it helps our Div. B team. I'm sure New Trier would be unhappy if they lost members from their Northfield High school team to Marie Murphy. Likewise, SHS cannot use this 9th grade rule to their advantage. On top of this, it IS fair to the 6-8th graders; in fact, in years past, there have been 6th graders who have made the states team, so clearly they do have a chance to compete. A few 7th graders make it each year as well.

Furthermore, Solon has two middle schools, 5-6 (Orchard Middle) and 7-8 (Solon Middle School), so SMS would be only pulling from 2 grades if not allowed otherwise. Either way, the rules were in place just so that schools like Gelinas (7-9) would still let the junior high members compete. The 5 9th grader team limit was created for a good balance between allowing junior high schools to compete while preventing middle schools from being disadvantaged.

I don't understand why this is such a huge concern, but I appreciate hearing this from a different perspective. Until now, it never crossed my mind that other schools view having 9th graders as really unfair.

How many 9th graders can make the Div. C varsity team?
Last year no 9th graders in Northfield High school could make the varsity team. Those 9th graders felt shame to come back to help Marie Murphy, so they had their own Div. C team which only had 9th graders. They did well.

[caseyotis]

Even if that's why they do so well, there's nothing unfair about it at all.

Do you think it's fair to those 6-8 graders in the same team?
Do you think those 9th graders should compete in Division C if they are really good?
Why high school kids come back and compete with middle school kids? Medals?
Yes, rule says Division B (Gr: 6-9).[/quote]

Absolutely. Why isn't it? Just because they're not competing? They'll get that same opportunity when they get older, like those ninth graders probably did!
If a system between the MS and HS was established, then that wouldn't be an issue. If there's a surplus of fantastic ninth graders, then any leftovers could hypothetically go on the MS team.
Because they can. Why not?
Freshmen don't have quite enough experience to compete effectively in Div. C (not everyone, but most, as compared to sophomores and juniors and seniors), and should absolutely be given a chance in Div. B instead of having to sit out of Science Olympiad for a whole school year. That's ridiculous. Again, there's nothing unfair about having ninth graders on a team. It's expected. We don't have sixth graders on our team, and we had one ninth grader (our first ever). We aren't very experienced or strategic, but we didn't completely bomb. It's good to have three generations of Science Olympiad, which is why my former team will probably never make it to states again. With a choice of having sixth graders or a limited amount of ninth graders, I'd obviously choose the latter.

Well, I'm just rambling now. This is about rankings, and this discussion is incredibly one-sided and unnecessary, IMO.

[geminicross]

Do you think it's fair to those 6-8 graders in the same team?
Do you think those 9th graders should compete in Division C if they are really good?
Why high school kids come back and compete with middle school kids? Medals?

A: Yes, why wouldn't it be, because less of them can compete? The point of scioly is to build the best overall team.
B: NO I'm taking Gifted Biology currently, how should I expect to be better than someone that's taking...say....AP Chem/Physics. I have less experience, and if there isn't room for me on the team, I should not be allowed to compete. Once again, the point of scioly is to build the best overall team. Also, I have come in contact with an All 6th Grade Team that competes in Division B, but is actually an elementary school, as well as a 6-8 school, 6-9 school, and 7-9 school. Schools have different set-ups, and we should be able to cater to more than the norm.
C: I came back, because they asked me to. I wasn't given my events till January, but managed two medals. 9th graders have trust, experience, and a great relationship with their coaches/partners, and can be trusted to get the job done. There is a sense of "Wow, I can do this!" when one is brought back to captain a middle school team.