Robot Arm C

[JBoyd-NY]

First, let me be clear that NOBODY touches the device except the team members during impound or competition. Our Friday impound for the Saturday State Tournament starts at 2:00 in the afternoon and ends at 5:30, and any inspection that we do during the impound is done with the students present and they handle their own devices.

Impounding on Friday (since no impound is required by the rules) was my call. I did so for several reasons. We will have between 50 and 55 teams competing over a 6 hour period. That means roughly 9 teams per hour. Because teams are allowed 5 minutes of setup time and three minutes of run time, along with the time necessary for the kids to point out the four required parts of their device and the time needed to calculate the points when the run is over, I will have two playing fields at the State tournament - a team will be competing in one while a second team is setting up in the other (all under the supervision of a judge). My concerns with the time also include the time to inspect the device to insure it meets the construction parameters. My experience with robot events in the past (Robot Ramble, Robo Cross, Robo Billiards, Robot Maze, and Sumo Bots) is that batteries are often buried inside the device and the students must do some disassembly to allow the event supervisor to verify the voltage and then they must be reassembled to be ready to compete. If the students doing the impound are the students who will actually be competing, then they can do that disassembly and reassembly during impound, saving that time during the competition.

Second, teams are required to submit three pieces of documentation. We've already heard discussions about how much time has gone into preparing that documentation, and I feel the event supervisor should have the time to thoroughly examine the documentation rather than just giving it a couple of minutes available during setup. As such, I've requested the teams send me their documentation before the competition so that I can examine them without constantly worrying about the clock. Having done this with Sumo Bots, I recognize that there will be some teams that don't submit their documentation until they arrive at the competition. By having an impound on Friday, I can receive the documents from those teams and have the time Friday night to look them over.

New York State has been doing Friday impound for the State competition for more than 5 years, and we've never had a problem with a team telling us that something happened to their device overnight.

[bearasauras]

Thanks Jim. Yup, like I was saying, impound the day before would make a lot of sense if it allows for more than the typical 1 hour period for impound the morning of event. I agree that with the documentation, the event supervisors should really have more than a couple of minutes to look over it. Maybe we'll add submitting the documentation early (similar to Mission Possible's TSL) next year.

[Primate]

Maybe by doing impound the night before, they can do more than the typical 1 hour of impound that you normally get the morning of. If your impound is say 2 hours, you can impound and check all the teams' devices while the teams are still there.

Our state competition usually runs impound from check-in Friday (2pm) to the start of the Friday night events (5pm), if I recall correctly.

Edit: Whoops, missed the last page here. I'd like to point out here as well that the state Sumo Bot tournament was by far the most well-run that I've seen.

By the way, Mr. Boyd, I know there were problems with the overnight impound for Mission. (Especially the first year, when the set-up time was the night before.) Balloons would deflate, and batteries for NC circuits were shot. I suppose the arms will require far less set-up, but I don't think it's a bad idea to remind teams to shut off their robots. (Yes, I know, it seems so obvious... then again, I've forgotten far worse.)

[Flavorflav]

Even with only an hour of impound, you can greatly increase your throughput by shaving even a minute or two of filling out forms for each team. Eastern Long Island had fifty teams at the recent tournament, and we had a real congestion problem in Helicopter and Sounds. We had to put on a second team of judges for each to get them all in in the allotted time. Robot was not as populated, but there is still a probelm there - teams who ran at 2:00 could be practicing and tinkering all day, giving them an advantage over people who ran in the morning.

I understand the dangers of impound, but I think the are more than justified.

[bearasauras]

Depends on how many teams there are, I don't know if I would impound if it's only for 30 minutes. When the students come back, they need to find their device and get it. That plus the time it takes the event supervisor to locate the team's form might be about the same as the students coming in already with their device and putting their name and school name on their form. Of course, that might be because too often my students forget their team number, and they end up look for their device in a field of 40-50 devices.

Edit: Sorry, misread your post.

[Flavorflav]

I also like impound as a supervisor because it lets me concentrate on one thing at a time and therefore do it more efficiently, and with less likelihood of error. For Sumo, for example, I had a little assembly line set up (totally based on Jim Boyd's) and we could certify a device in much less time than I suspect it would have taken if we were always doing it between bouts. IN ELI we put in an optional impound in Helicopter, Tower and Sounds and more than half of teams chose to take advantage of it. The supervisors I talked to don't think they would have been able to get all the devices through if they hadn't.

[bearasauras]

Ah I see the difference. We normally have 1 or 2 people who's job is to call the next team up and check them in and check their devices to make sure they follow the rules. Another 3ish people would actually judge the running of the device.

[JBoyd-NY]

By the way, Mr. Boyd, I know there were problems with the overnight impound for Mission. (Especially the first year, when the set-up time was the night before.) Balloons would deflate, and batteries for NC circuits were shot. I suppose the arms will require far less set-up, but I don't think it's a bad idea to remind teams to shut off their robots. (Yes, I know, it seems so obvious... then again, I've forgotten far worse.)

Those problems, however, were not caused by having devices in impound overnight, but by the requirement that they be set up to run when impounded. If they had simply been impounded and the teams were allowed to set up when they came to compete, those problems would have been non-existent.

Depends on how many teams there are, I don't know if I would impound if it's only for 30 minutes. When the students come back, they need to find their device and get it. That plus the time it takes the event supervisor to locate the team's form might be about the same as the students coming in already with their device and putting their name and school name on their form. Of course, that might be because too often my students forget their team number, and they end up look for their device in a field of 40-50 devices.

That's another advantage of impounding the night before. When I get home from impound/coaches meeting, I arrange the score sheets by the hour in which the teams are competing. I also try to impound (when room is available) by the hour when the teams will compete - all of the teams for 8:00 in one row, all of the teams for 9:00 in the next, etc. When teams come up to compete, I only have to find their scoresheet from the 9 that are competing that hour rather than sorting through all 54 sheets, and the teams know that their bot is one of the 9 in the row for their hour of competition. Even when impound placement is random, by having their score sheet right away, I can remind them of their number and that helps them find their bot.

My biggest concern in running an event is to do it correctly AND ON TIME so that no students are late getting to their next event (obviously if there is a conflict between these two goals, doing it correctly takes precedence). By getting some of the more tedious and time consuming things that aren't related at all to the actual competition out of the way the night before, I'm more comfortable that I can get all of the teams through their hour in a timely fashion without cutting any corners.

[jander14indoor]

Just to post a different event supervisor view.
The need for impound due to lots of teams can be countered by having sufficient support personnel on the supervision team. I've helped run Helicopter and Wright Stuff at the Michigan State tournament and the national tournament (both larger tournaments) without impound many times. No issue with backed up students, damaged devices, or inadequate supervision. It can be done, and it was low stress. Of course it does require more people which is ALWAYS a challenge in running a tournament.

I ran the national Robot Arm trial last year with a smallish crew and a relatively small number of teams, no issue with no impound. Since its official for national this year, a larger crew will of course be needed.

Now, the technical documentation, that I'd like before hand to have time for proper judging and to set up my questions for checkin ahead of time. That's an option we discussed when we wrote the rules for this year, and one I prefer.

Either way can work, event supervisors preference based on their circumstances.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[Flavorflav]

I am sure that is true. I would only add that if getting enough people is not an issue, supervising impound should be a breeze.