Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

[Frogger4907]

How will designs vary if the materials are limited?

[chalker7]

How will designs vary if the materials are limited?

The bigger question we thought about was "How would designs vary if the materials were unlimited?" Without restrictions, all of the rich teams would find a way to get their hands on aerogel while most other teams would just use fiberglass insulation or cut up foam coolers. With restrictions (which permit quite a large variety of materials), teams will be forced to experiment with different insulators.

[Frogger4907]

How will designs vary if the materials are limited?

The bigger question we thought about was "How would designs vary if the materials were unlimited?" Without restrictions, all of the rich teams would find a way to get their hands on aerogel while most other teams would just use fiberglass insulation or cut up foam coolers. With restrictions (which permit quite a large variety of materials), teams will be forced to experiment with different insulators.

Very logical point about the money and aerogel... But what about the internet? What testing and experimenting would be needed with all the facts about thermal insulation, of the limited various materials we will be able to use that are available, most people with Google would be able to figure out what useable materials are going to accomplish the task best with an hour on Google.

[chalker7]

How will designs vary if the materials are limited?

The bigger question we thought about was "How would designs vary if the materials were unlimited?" Without restrictions, all of the rich teams would find a way to get their hands on aerogel while most other teams would just use fiberglass insulation or cut up foam coolers. With restrictions (which permit quite a large variety of materials), teams will be forced to experiment with different insulators.

Very logical point about the money and aerogel... But what about the internet? What testing and experimenting would be needed with all the facts about thermal insulation, of the limited various materials we will be able to use that are available, most people with Google would be able to figure out what useable materials are going to accomplish the task best with an hour on Google.

That factor wouldn't change at all with unrestricted materials, teams would still be able to determine the best insulators with a normal google search. In fact, I would say it would be easier since they wouldn't have to search a large number of different options, they'd just do a general search for all insulators instead of specific comparisons.

Plus, I think you'll be surprised by the wide variety of different options available (it isn't just cardboard and tape),there will be a good variety of devices.

[Frogger4907]

How will there be variety if everyone will be able to determine the best insulator via google? everyone will just use that... I'm just saying that no matter how you set up the building of this event... The amount of heat that the device actually contain shouldn't be scored. maybe the teams ability to predict the amount of heat lost, but not the devices ability. It won't be fair no matter if you are limited or unlimited in your materials available.

[chalker7]

How will there be variety if everyone will be able to determine the best insulator via google? everyone will just use that... I'm just saying that no matter how you set up the building of this event... The amount of heat that the device actually contain shouldn't be scored. maybe the teams ability to predict the amount of heat lost, but not the devices ability. It won't be fair no matter if you are limited or unlimited in your materials available.

Design is tremendously important to insulation, not just material selection (which will also see a lot of variation, google doesn't solve everything). More importantly, the heat retention score is relatively minor in the grand scheme of this event, just wait until you see the rules.

Please don't take your preconceptions about what an event may be and judge it before either seeing the rules or the event in practice. I shared a lot of your concerns with the early drafts of the rules, but I think they are much better than what they started out as and this event will be extremely good.

[chalker]

Very logical point about the money and aerogel... But what about the internet? What testing and experimenting would be needed with all the facts about thermal insulation, of the limited various materials we will be able to use that are available, most people with Google would be able to figure out what useable materials are going to accomplish the task best with an hour on Google.

Figuring out what materials are the best is a far cry from actually building a device that makes maximum utilization of those materials (i.e. theory is much different from application). In fact, I'll save you the trouble of doing a Google search and point you to this wikipedia page that lists all the most common ones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_%28insulation%29 (hint, vacuum is the best)

However, you'll also note that that page is EXTREMELY long, because it discusses all the various factors that go into the engineering of thermal insulation. A LOT of testing and experimenting is still going to be needed to create a truly superior device, yet the entry level devices can be constructed rather easily (which is what we like to see in building events).

[Frogger4907]

Please don't take your preconceptions about what an event may be and judge it before either seeing the rules or the event in practice. I shared a lot of your concerns with the early drafts of the rules, but I think they are much better than what they started out as and this event will be extremely good.

Alright, will do.

[Flavorflav]

I know anything you say here has no official standing, but can on of you chalkers enlighten me about the ice water? 4.a.v says that "teams may add up to 100 mL of water from an ice bath to their beakers," plural. Am I correct in assuming that they are supposed to add the same amount to each beaker? If so, do they score the total volume of water added to both beakers?

[chalker]

I know anything you say here has no official standing, but can on of you chalkers enlighten me about the ice water? 4.a.v says that "teams may add up to 100 mL of water from an ice bath to their beakers," plural. Am I correct in assuming that they are supposed to add the same amount to each beaker? If so, do they score the total volume of water added to both beakers?

And I think you win the prize for finding the first error in the rules. Wow, only took about 2 days;) Our intention was for it to only be the internal beaker*. Looks like I'll have to push for a clarification to be posted.

*Standard disclaimer: this is not an official clarification, so don't treat it as such. Go to soinc.org for such things;)