Junkyard Challenge B

[fleet130]

Also, look at the excel score sheet on soinc.

Don't take information posted on the internet (even the event pages at soinc.org) as an extension of the rules. This information is developed by coaches, event supervisors and other people involved in Science Olympiad from all around the country. Sometimes it is from previous years when the rules were different. There is no guarantee it complies with the current rules 100%.

The only trusted resources for interpreting the rules are the current rules book and any clarifications from the organizing authority for the tournament you will compete in. I'm not saying the spreadsheet is ether wrong or right, just that unless someone of authority says it is right, you cannot trust it as a reference. The disclaimer on the top of every event page on http://soinc.org/ warns you of this. The author of the Excel spreadsheet may not have understood the scoring or may not be aware the formula is incorrect.

[acanoli]

Yeah, you're right. Sorry about that. Same deal with the FAQ.

[haven chuck]

Actually, the FAQ's are official. The FAQ page says - "These Official Rules Clarifications apply to all states and all tournaments and originate at the national level."

[fleet130]

Science Olympiad makes a distinction between "Official Rules Clarifications" and "FAQs" That's why they are on separate pages.
This appears on the top of the Rules Clarification page, but not on the Frequently Asked Questions page.

Official Rules Clarifications are made to clarify or correct the rules printed in the manuals. These Official Rules Clarifications apply to all states and all tournaments and originate at the national level. Click here to view Event FAQs or to Submit a Question .

Note: Even though the statement says the rules clarifications apply to other tournaments, there is no guarantee they will honor them.

[acanoli]

A new rule clarification was posted yesterday.

Junkyard Challenge: Section 3.i. and 4.g. and 4. Ties, Seconds are recorded in "whole seconds" so, 59.5 would be recorded as 59. And, any time between 60.00-60.99 would be recorded as 60, after which actions are no longer scored (See the posted Junkyard FAQs). The 2nd Tiebreaker should read: Closest time of operation to 60 seconds" (4/12/10)

I guess that settles that.

[fleet130]

From the RULES CLARIFICATIONS page:
Junkyard Challenge: Section 3.i. and 4.g. and 4. Ties, Seconds are recorded in "whole seconds" so, 59.5 would be recorded as 59. And, any time between 60.00-60.99 would be recorded as 60, after which actions are no longer scored (See the posted Junkyard FAQs). The 2nd Tiebreaker should read: Closest time of operation to 60 seconds" (4/12/10)

From the JUNKYARD CHALLENGE FAQ page.
(section: 4 / paragraph: q / sub-paragraph: ii / line: 1)
# 02/01/2010 - 19:14 “ties broken by longest time up to 60 sec”. Is the actual time (to the hundredth of the second) used for this tiebreaker or should the time be the “whole second” time that was scored? If whole seconds are used, what is the 3rd tiebreaker?

The second tie breaker should be what was recorded in either tenths or hundredths up to 60.99 seconds since 60.99 seconds is technically 60 whole seconds, no rounding involved. The third tie breaker should be greatest variety in device design.

There is a slight disconnect between these two statements. The clarification states the time will be "recorded" in "whole" seconds and the FAQ states the "The second tie breaker should be what was "recorded" and continues on saying "in either tenths or hundredths up to 60.99 seconds". The disconnect is: If the time was recorded in whole seconds as stated in the clarification, there will be no "tenths or hundredths" to use for the second tiebreaker.

In checking, this is what they really mean: The actual time will be recorded to the resolution indicated by the instrument used. The time used for scoring will be the actual time truncated to whole seconds. The time used for the second tiebreaker will be the actual recorded time (using the resolution of the timing instrument).

What they will actually do is anybody's guess.

[acanoli]

Also, note that the tiebreaker was changed to "Closest time of operation to 60 seconds." This means that you want to get as close to 60 seconds as possible. Therefore, 60.1 would be scored above 60.2. But 59.99 would be scored below both, since it would not have gotten those extra 2 points, and the tiebreaker wouldn't matter.

[mrcadman]

Also, note that the tiebreaker was changed to "Closest time of operation to 60 seconds." This means that you want to get as close to 60 seconds as possible. Therefore, 60.1 would be scored above 60.2. But 59.99 would be scored below both, since it would not have gotten those extra 2 points, and the tiebreaker wouldn't matter.

Really hung up on that 60 there. The most whole use of 60 is 60.99. They say it a few times, over and over.

[acanoli]

Exactly. They changed the tiebreaker from "closest up to 60" to " closest to 60." This clears it up so they can allow 60.99 to be scored for completion. But what it also does, is it changes the tiebreaker so that you're trying to get as close to 60 as possible.

Consider 2 teams, A, B, and C. All of them get all the basic points and no penalties. A stops at 59.9, B stops at 60.1, and C stops at 60.9. First of all, A gets last place because it got 2 less points than B and C, since it operated for one less "whole second." B and C are tied, but B wins the tiebreaker because it is the "closest to 60 seconds."

I'm just explaining this clearly so that everyone hears me, this is a major clarification. Until now teams had been shooting for either around 59.9 or 60.9, now they're shooting for around 60.1.

This is the first time I can remember where clarification made a major decision like this!

[mrcadman]

Exactly. They changed the tiebreaker from "closest up to 60" to " closest to 60." This clears it up so they can allow 60.99 to be scored for completion. But what it also does, is it changes the tiebreaker so that you're trying to get as close to 60 as possible.

Consider 2 teams, A, B, and C. All of them get all the basic points and no penalties. A stops at 59.9, B stops at 60.1, and C stops at 60.9. First of all, A gets last place because it got 2 less points than B and C, since it operated for one less "whole second." B and C are tied, but B wins the tiebreaker because it is the "closest to 60 seconds."

I'm just explaining this clearly so that everyone hears me, this is a major clarification. Until now teams had been shooting for either around 59.9 or 60.9, now they're shooting for around 60.1.

This is the first time I can remember where clarification made a major decision like this!

I think you are still misreading it. Closest to 60 seconds, not just closest to 60. Thus 60 whole seconds, which would still be 60.99, as they've been saying over and over.